the doctrine is called the great barrington declaration. they argue for, quote, compassionate approach that benefits the risk and benefits of reaching herd immunity is to allow those at minimal rick of death to live their lives normally through natural infection by protecting those at highest risk. the manifesto's central tenet is that not returning to normal life is doing more harm than good, results in long-lasting physical and mental health problems. therefore, the declaration says restaurants and other businesses should open. arts, music, sport and other cultural activity should resume. people who are more at risk may participate if they issue, while society as a whole enjoys the vulnerable by those who have built up herd immunity. publication of great barrington declaration drew swift response by someone called the john snow memorandum. this is a tip of the hat to john snow the epidemiologist. the signatures of this document say the great barrington declaration would endanger americans who have underlying conditions who put them under

it's known asas the great barrington declaration.he letter begins -- "as infectious disease epidemiologists and public health scientists, we have grave concerns about the damaging physical and mental health impacts of the prevailing covid-19 policies, and recommend an approach we call focused protection." the letter goes on to state -- "those who are not vulnerable should immediately be allowed to resume life as normal." the great barrington declaration is named after a town in western massachusetts which is home to the american institute for economic research, a koch brother funded think tank that sponsored the open letter. many other public health experts have expressed alarm over this call to embrace herd immunity. on wednesday, a group of doctors and scientists signed an opepen letterer in the lancet medical journal stating -- "the evidence is very clear -- controlling community spread of covid-19 is the best way to protect our societies and economies until safe and effective vaccines and therapeutics arrive within the coming mon

author of the document called "the great barrington declaration." read it, it is sensible, smart and moderate. it advocates for allowing healthy young people to live their lives remotely. let's not kill them. the theory is the people who contract the virus and build up an immunity, which decreases the spread of the virus. public health experts have mocked the idea. tony fauci, who they say is a genius, has called the idea total nonsense. dr. bhattacharya is professor of medicine at stanford university, one of the authors of the declaration. thank you very much for coming on. if you summarize your position, i think "the great barrington declaration" has been characterized by partisan struggle so i would like to hear you describe what it is. >>>> i think the key idea of the declaration is there is a 1,000 fold difference in the risk of mortality for people who are older for him covid-19 is actually a deadly disease. 95% survived but still 5% die. p 70. whereas for younger people, it's much less 5 deadly. for instance, for children there have been many

time now for a quick break but stay here because the whole return the great barrington declaration is under scrutiny by those who say that implementing strict law is not the answer and we have a panel standing by as we go to break here the numbers at the close. election. little. of. the world is driven by dreamers shaped by those. who dares thinks. week to ask. you know when i'm going to be out there see i don't think about i don't many grown men not me a dollar for bush. i kind of what i wanted on course if i'm not big now on that it's hard enough. members of the africa mafias them safe and quick passage to europe but once they. leave they are enslaved the country child util. will not some of them leave your mom on and off and you know. this you need to get it out i mean. on the cheek with. the soul of the. let me guess all on court of the united. because the persona that kenny mayne thought all this carbon war millenia. was a pandemic no certainly no borders just blind to nationalities. as a muddled up with the we don't look like seeing the whole world needs to be. people . judging.

time now for a quick break but stay here because one who returned the great barrington declaration is under scrutiny by those who say that implementing strict law is not the answer and we have a panel standing by as we go to break here the numbers at the close. secret prisons and usually what comes to mind when thinking about europe however even the most prosperous can be deceived we've been. there were to view houses were allowed to leave prison was located only cia people had access to the story for investigators she held the uncovered the darkest dealings of the secret services but i mean. you great ignore in. the full. justice on. the single greatest most important aspect of any functioning society is price discovery price discovery more so than any moral or aesthetic or ethical. kind of set of rules because without sound money without some price discovery you don't have a society full stop. you know what i'm going to be out there so i don't think about a lair i don't mean a grown man not me and there are 4. i kind of what i wanted on course if i'm not the now one think it's highe

rejects the great barrington declaration and for all what you say about bill gates say he does have a lot of money and he has arguably a lot of power why do you think say in london our committee is not they're not there in fights between members of the committee carried out in public and certainly you know big titans of industry are slamming people on the expert committees of government i don't think even in european capitals is it something about the the american body politic. i think that yeah i think you know i know sinatra goot in the u.k. she's going to the world's best infectious disease epidemiologist and i think she's been battered quite a bit. but i would say this that the u.s. is the u.s. has a lot of positives and a lot of you know people are very more interactive but right now the country's off the rails the countries off the rails because there is this hysteria that has been tual by the faces of public health experts you see here that have been not only wrong but more interested i believe in their own stature than anything else and you know you've got to look at the data

it's called the great barrington dark gratian a signed document by over 10000 medical and public health scientists 27000 medical practitioners and over half a 1000000 concerned citizens the authors of this declaration which include a professor of medicine from harvard university a professor an epidemiologist from oxford university and a professor from stanford university medical school calls for an end to all current lock downs especially for people who are deemed a low risk of death an infection from cope at $191.00 section it reads as immunity builds in the population the risk of infection to all including the vulnerable falls we know that all populations will eventually return immunity the petition states our goal should therefore be to minimize mortality and social harm until we reach herd immunity joining us now to discuss. swan and jeffrey tucker of the american institute for economic research element thank you for being here ben obviously this declaration is extremely controversial but isn't a covert vaccine supposed to get us to herd immunity. yes it is yes to both of them it's

time now for a quick break but stay here because the return the great barrington declaration is under scrutiny by those who say that implementing strict law is not the answer and we have a panel standing by and as we go to break here the numbers up a close. immediate environment used leak if you disagree with the official narrative you're told a conspiracy theorist never mind many of visual narrative which we are to seriously and is big pick a war with talk to. the single greatest most important aspect of any functioning society is price discovery price discovery more so than any moral or aesthetic or ethical. kind of set of rules because without sound money without some price discovery you don't have a society full stop. seemed wrong well we just don't hold. any new world view yet to shape out these days become agitated and in games from an equal betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. secret prisons and usually what comes to mind when thinking about europe even the most prosperous can be deceived within this 0 zone there were 2 view h

what are the risks of the focused protection approach on it out in the great barrington declaration. since the very earliest days of this pandemic there have been those who believe that our responses to cope at 19 so the lock downs and all the other measures that they have actually caused more damage than the disease itself and they believe that we need to look for other options even without access to a vaccine since really wide scale and for. action would be at least theoretically a pathway to what we want which is herd immunity the concepts laid out in the highly controversial declaration that you mention was proposed several weeks ago by 3 scientists from the u.s. and britain and it's been signed by others it says that we need to only focus on protecting groups that it classifies as vulnerable especially the elderly and it urges a return to normal life immediately for everyone else that means basically not trying to limit infections among those that it says are at minimal risk of death so what would be the dangers of going down that path there are some pretty major ones and the bi

for example, the great barrington declaration, those were academics who challenged lockdown.gupta and doctor hannigan from oxford university were among those who signed them, and carl hannigan, we have used on challenging some of the government figures. it is a big debate here, and we are reflecting all shades of opinion and what can be quite a polarising situation. i want to ask a bit more about that, because with the debate so polarised the bbc is in a really tricky position. if you portray the official policy you run the risk of being seen as a mouthpiece for the government and if you highlight the opposite view the audience complain, and they do complain, that they are becoming confused and cynical. can you give an insight into your approach as a bbcjournalist and how much coverage to give each side? borisjohnson himself said at his most recent press briefing that there were two ends of this debate in the spectrum. one was that we had to go for tougher lockdown measures than with the government was proposing at the moment in england, that is, and the other end of the spec

early last week, though, scientists behind this great barrington declaration met with dr. atlas and alex azar who tweeted, quote, we heard strong reinforcement of the trump administration strategy of aggressively protecting the vulnerable while opening schools. what he did not do, and what dr. atlas has not done, is say that reaching herd immunity, if that's even possible, could put thousands or even millions lives at richk. risk. again, take a look at tonight's crowd. how many of the young people, you see there, live with or come in contact with older people? how many healthy-looking people are on chemotherapy or have diabetes or are overweight or have other risk factors for dying of covid that some might not even know of? who, amongst these people, might get the disease and recover but suffer long-term complications, as a lot of healthy people who had mild covid infections, were never even hospitalized, are experiencing. >> herd immunity is another word for mass murder. that is exactly what it is. if you allow this virus to spread, as they are advocating, we are looking

in the so-called great barrington declaration, they explained how lockdowns were doing damage to theh. one of the leading signatories was a professor of medicine at the harvard medical school, and he joins me now. professor, thank you very much for being here. >> thank you. gerry: let me just try and understand what you're saying in this declaration. you make the point that it's not just -- that the lockdowns are not just doing economic damage, but significant damage to public health and other areas. can you explain what you mean by that? >> yeah. one of the goals of public health is that you can't can just look at one disease. you have to look at it as a whole. so with the lockdown, we have worse outcome for cardiovascular disease, plummeting immunization rates for child, we have cancer screenings that are not occurring now, so somebody might if die from cervical cancer three to four years from now rather than living 15-20 years. so those are things that are also very important for public health. gerry: i'm sorry, is it, is it going too far to say the lockdown cure is worse than the

dr martin kulldorff is one of the co—authors of the great barrington declaration — he's a professor of have you with us. i know you are at the white house last week meeting mr atlas and dhs secretary. how much weight do you think you're taxing your documents has had a number white house policy? -- your documents. we met with secretary atlas and is building but the thinking and the declaration is very similarto thinking and the declaration is very similar to the thinking that scott atlas has mentioned before it became a white house adviser and that many other infectious disease epidemiologist are in favour of. so this is nothing strange or something new. it is the same proposals that we re new. it is the same proposals that were in the various pandemic preparedness documents in different countries in europe had prepared for before the pandemic. the trouble is, according to the leslie, there's only been around 10% of the united states that is been affected and what we have come at 216 thousand deaths, so to get the herd immunity, 60 or 70% come if you do the simple math, he means you're

what are the risks of the focused protection approach on it out in the great barrington declaration. since the very earliest days of this pandemic there have been those who believe that our responses to cope at 19 so the lock downs and all the other measures that they have actually caused more damage than the disease itself and they believe that we need to look for other options even without access to a vaccine since really wide scale and for. action would be at least theoretically a pathway to what we want which is herd immunity the concepts laid out in the highly controversial declaration that you mention was proposed several weeks ago by 3 scientists from the u.s. and britain and it's been signed by others it says that we need to only focus on protecting groups that it classifies as vulnerable especially the elderly and that urges a return to normal life immediately for everyone else that means basically not trying to limit infections among those that it says are at minimal risk of death so what would be the dangers of going down that path there are some pretty major ones and the

what are the risks of the focused protection approach on it out in the great barrington declaration. since the very earliest days of this pandemic there have been those who believe that our responses to covert 19 so the lock downs and all the other measures that they have actually caused more damage than the disease itself and they believe that we need to look for other options even without access to a vaccine since really wide scale and so. action would be at least theoretically a pathway to what we want which is herd immunity the concepts laid out in the highly controversial declaration that you mention was proposed several weeks ago by 3 scientists from the u.s. and britain and it's been signed by others it says that we need to only focus on protecting groups that it classifies as vulnerable especially the elderly and that urges a return to normal life immediately for everyone else that means they sickly not trying to limit infections among those that it says are at minimal risk of death so what would be the dangers of going down that path there are some pretty major ones in the b

what are the risks of the focused protection of price point out in the great barrington declaration.since the very earliest days of this pandemic there have been those who believe that our responses to cope at 19 so the lockdowns and all the other measures that they have actually caused more damage than the disease itself and they believe that we need to look for other options even without access to a vaccine since really wide scale infection would be at least theoretically a pathway to what we want which is herd immunity the concepts laid out in the highly controversial declaration that you mention was proposed several weeks ago by 3 scientists from the u.s. and britain and it's been signed by others it says that we need to only focus on protecting groups that it classifies as vulnerable especially the elderly and that urges a return to normal life immediately for everyone else that means basically not trying to limit infections among those that it says are at minimal risk of death so what would be the dangers of going down that path there are some pretty major ones and the big flaw

what are the risks of the focused protection approach on it out in the great barrington declaration. since the very earliest days of this pandemic there have been those who believe that our responses to covert 19 so the lock downs and all the other measures that they have actually caused more damage than the disease itself and they believe that we need to look for other options even without access to a vaccine since really wide scale infection would be at least theoretically a pathway to what we want which is herd immunity the concepts laid out in the highly controversial declaration that you mention was proposed several weeks ago by 3 scientists from the u.s. and britain and it's been signed by others it says that we need to only focus on protecting groups that it classifies as vulnerable especially the elderly and that urges a return to normal life immediately for everyone else that means basically not trying to limit infections among those that it says are at minimal risk of death so what would be the dangers of going down that path there are some pretty major ones and the big fla

. >> there are a group of scientists who have signed a letter called the great barrington declaration which the white house has embraced and it argues that the central focus of public health policy should be, quote, focused protection, right, that protecting those who are the most vulnerable should be our primary focus, and that the rest of the population should just live their daily lives and take on the risk that is getting the coronavirus and enduring it and building the antibodies. you said that it is impossible to fully protect the vulnerable population, and that's why this is a bad idea. why is it impossible to fully protect those who are vulnerable? >> well, so in the declaration it says we don't want to shut down and lock down. i totally agree with that and i say that almost every day, that that's not the solution. the other one is -- >> there is an implication somehow you want to shut down the economy. that's -- >> totally, totally, totally incorrect. okay? now, next is, we want to protect the vulnerable. i am all for that. that's what's in the declarat but what is implied fr

we have things like the great barrington statement that just came out from the doctors wrong why did that through example masks are of little detail of the etc and these are real serious people and skip noted you know conspiracies it is series of people in their basements smoking crack never really in the real deal but it may be later although i don't know if you know me or we don't know we are not given the opportunity to think for ourselves. but that's just it kim that's exactly what's going on here they don't want people to think for themselves and they want to look not just to look to these people for a guy but the problem with that is that i have a fundamental ideological difference with posted there the way they see the world ok and i refuse to submit i have my own views i will make up my own mind and i will go to the people that i think are authoritative that's our role i believe our right to do but. i'm only so you know like when i put up a a video in the you know in the end do you monetise why is it the money times ok and then you know you have to write to them and a good nu

different opinions but there were many doctors many scientists who signed something called the great barrington declaration and we are deeply concerned about what this is doing to the fabric of society and indeed to those all those other conditions that i mentioned and you know actually possibly the way out of this is to isolate those that are most of all. rable and actually if you talk to those people who were at high risk many of them have had enough many of them feel that they would rather take their you know their own decisions rather than being told what to do by the state and i think you know it's a bit like the dodgems that are foreign affairs i think ultimately you write your own risks and i think you know there is a very strong argument for her demeanor see the interesting some of the on this day but we've seen rising in autumn throughout the world but one country that has and is sweden there are daily coronavirus death rate essential easy since late august in the u.k. as you're well aware dozens are dying each day there seems to be an argument against sweden you know along the politic

competing with systems and schools of thoughts and asked his declaration shows, it is called the great barrington commit declaration is from through the worlds top epidemiologists including a professor at oxford university but sign over thousands of people and is very important to get the message out there that there are these competing with stones because in choosing one set of experts over the other, i think that is a political decision and it is one for which the government is ultimately accountable andi government is ultimately accountable and i think it is wrong for them to be consistently using that appeal of following the science when they in fa ct following the science when they in fact are choosing between different scientific approaches. what do you stand on this, david come about people taking more spots ability for the help if you are in your 80s or 90s, you are in your 80s or 90s, your address, he sealed, 90s, you are in your 80s or 90s, youraddress, he sealed, but 90s, you are in your 80s or 90s, your address, he sealed, but the rest of society tries to return to normal? —— people t

we have things like the great barrington statement that just came out from his doctors in rome why the exact example national are of blue to lety etc and these are real serious people that and skip you know conspiracies it is serious people in their basements smoking crack never really in the real deal you later although i don't know you do we don't know we're not given the opportunity you think for ourselves but a potential victim that's exactly what's going on here they don't want people to think for themselves and they want to look not to look to these people for guidance but the problem with that is that i have a fundamental ideological difference with most of their the way they see the world ok and i refuse to submit i have my own views i will make up my own mind and i will go to people that i think are authoritative that's our role i believe our right to do but i think if i'm always you know like when i could have a a video in the know in the end do you monetize why is it demonic times ok and then you know you have to write to them and a good number of times i think they said oh

sound approach — they have even gathered a group of scientists to create a declaration, the great barrington the lancet today, thejohn snow memo, signed by myself and tends of others, signed by myself and tens of others, scientists from all around the block, saying we know the way out of this and it is by controlling community spread, it‘s by population level measures like masking and social distancing, and testing, and isolation support, and it is by protecting vulnerable populations, as we say, like essential workers and the elderly, and there are countries — zealand, japan and others — that have shown that this is a viable way to go forward and it is not a choice between lockdowns and heard immunity. this that is a false choice. dr ashwin vasan. is the uk prime minister has said a deadline of thursday but it has been delayed until friday. two catholic priests have gone on trial in the vatican. it is the first time it has prosecuted allegations of sexual abuse. neither man has submitted a plea or commented on the case so far. president trump is visibly bouncing back from his coronavirus in

across, could we not, and yet we're talking about this idea of herd immunity and we have got the great barringtonby thousands of scientists. where she would be going with this? i think the idea that there are only two options which is allowing the virus to rip which i think nobody is honestly calling for and the other alternative is full suppression which is on the other extreme which is to lock down everything. there has to be some kind of way in the middle and i think the chance i put it very well when he said we cannot live in fear, we have to learn to live with this virus because a lot of decisions seem to be gambling on there being a vaccine. we have no idea when that is going to emerge, how effective it is going to emerge, how effective it is going to be and how quickly that is going to be and how quickly that is going to be and how quickly that is going to be put out there. so really i think the focus has to be on how can we have as much a normal life as possible while clamping down on those local spikes when they do happen. absolutely having a good test and trace programme is central to t

fauci took another shot at the great barrington declaration, doctor, which, of course, hundreds and hundredsors and health care of professionals opposing lockdowns and other severe covert restrictions. this is what he said to. >> if you just let the infection go, no mask, crowd, it doesn't make any difference, that, quite frankly, george, is ridiculous. because what that will do is they will be so many people in the community that you can't shelter and that you can't protect. so this idea that we have the power to protect the vulnerable is total nonsense. >> laura: dr. oskoui, your response to the great anthony fauci? >> i think some are accusing of being responsible against a crime against humanity. the reality is neighboring human history have we lockdown society. you quarantine the sick,k, the vulnerable, but you don't shut down the whole country. what he is suggesting is scientifically and -- unsubstantiated. i'm shocked this man has any sort of podium anymore. he's been wrong so many times, it is terrible. >> laura: i'm shocked he is heading the coronavirus task force. >> me too. >> lau

hundreds of scientists have signed on the great barrington declaration against lockdowns and for a return to common sense anti-covid measures. the last thing democrats want to hear are these four words. go back to work. speak we've known for some time that scott atlas and the body language from the white house has been that they are supportive of the idea of herd immunity. >> they are inflicting their idea of herd immunity on the country. >> this is the embodiment to me of antiscience. >> laura: the science, now that's funny. there was never any real science behind covid lockdowns and the evidence that all of our mask wearing works is also murky to say the least. a new cdc study shows that the majority of those infected with covid-19 always wore masks. oops. oh, wait. that might be why joe wore not one but two masks yesterday when visiting florida. tomorrow it will be three masks. by election day, i don't know, maybe he will have 20 overlapping masks on his face. does that make you all feel safe? and that's the angle. joining me now, dr. harvey risch, professor of epidemiology at the old

what are the risks of the focused protection of products made out in the great barrington declaration. since the very earliest days of this pandemic there have been those who believe that our responses to covert 19 so the lock downs and all the other measures that they have actually caused more damage than the disease itself and they believe that we need to look for other options even without access to a vaccine since really wide scale infection would be at least theoretically a pathway to what we want which is herd immunity the concepts laid out in the highly controversial declaration that you mention was proposed several weeks ago by 3 scientists from the u.s. and britain and it's been signed by others it says that we need to only focus on protecting groups that it classifies as vulnerable especially the elderly and that urges a return to normal life immediately for everyone else that means basically not trying to limit infections among those that it says are at minimal risk of death so what would be the dangers of going down that path there are some pretty major ones and the big fl

white house officials explicitly supported the approach and cited a recent petition called the great barrington declaration which argues herd immunity will allow those who are at minimal risk of death to live normally, build up against infection while better protecting those at highest risk. president trump echoing that sentiment in front of thousands of supporters at his rally yesterday. >> who has had it here? who has had it? a lot of people. a lot of people. you're the people i want to say hello to, because you're right now immune. >> here is how one health expert summed up what this really is. >> i'm extremely concerned that the president is being advised by people who speak of herd immunity. herd immunity is another word for mass murder. >> dr. nguyen cnn medical analyst and former baltimore health commissioner. dr. nguyen, thank you so much for coming on. if you can just explain to viewers how herd immunity would look like in this country and what would have to happen to achieve that. >> so herd immunity is not a public health strategy when it comes to covid-19. public health is about pro

and you're seeing this with the great barrington declaration too, which i know you talked about, theentists published that who are very, very well-known, more at stanford and oxford and harvard with sterling credentials are being tarred and feathered by other scientists. i don't understand what has happened to scientific debate, not just in this country, but around then world, where if you have an opinion, a well-backs, well-researched opinion that's outside the consensus, you can't get it published in the major journal. >> tucker: that's just witchcraft, isn't it? at that point that's not science, right? >> science should be a discussion and you see this in yet another way, which is that people who published studies, who actually the authors of studies showing that masks are ineffective or written articles saying, you know there was this article in "the new england journal of medicine" at the beginning of april and it essentially said universal masking is ineffective probably, it is essentially a [indiscernible] to the public's fears. the people who wrote that article walked back th

. >> and online act i want out position making headlines, great barrington declaration, nearly 6000 peoplelves health experts are calling for herd immunity by allowing those with minimal risk of death to get back to their lives while protecting the highest risk population. that petition is getting plenty of criticism from others in the scientific community and the media who question whether herd immunity is even possible as it is still not clear how long immunity lasts. >> thank you. see you back here tomorrow morning at 8:405 am for the hearing of judge amy coney barrett. most grateful you spent the evening with us. good night from washington. i am shannon bream. shannon: i went through it, i am immune, i feel so powerful was when you're the president you can't lock yourself in a basement and say i am not going to bother with the world, you've got to get out. >> tuesday october thirteenth, 3 weeks from election day as donald trump makes his rally return. and joe biden at a sparse ohio crowd as the heat turns up on the trail. >> a justice who has been critical of us holding the affordable