we remember john and it seems to me gregory pincus is the jonas and the women at the -- [inaudible] hewould argue because he named himself the father of the hill and there has been a lot of competition among those guys. but the women in planned parenthood is a store that is told and they used to worship gregory pincus for saving them. there is no question, there is no question that the scientists and doctors -- this is a time that very few women have access to the science and medical training. katharine mccormick was the second woman to ever graduate from mit in 1902 with a biology degree and was a scientist and was involved in selecting pincus and observing moderate and keeping track of the research and making sure that the facilities were what she thought they ought to be in terms of their scientific value and so she was a scientist but there were decades when women didn't have access to this kind of training. so, you know, the man deserves credit and get credit. my book gives them credit. for goodness sakes -- men have never even really been in the story but the point is the pill wo

we remember jonas and it seems to be gregory pincus and the women -- [inaudible] >> guest: carvel named himself the father of the bill and there has been a little bit of competition among those guys. >> host: i can see that the women of planned parenthood -- and this is a story that is told in andrea's bouck -- they used to worship gregory pincus for saving them. >> guest: there is no question that the scientists and doctors and this is a time very few women have access to science and medical katharine mccormick was the second women ever to graduate from mit in 1902 with a biology degree. and she was a scientist and she was involved in selecting pincus and observing moderates and keeping track of the research and making sure that the facilities which i thought they ought to be in terms of their scientific value and so she was a scientist. but there were decades when the women didn't have access to this kind of training the man deserves credit and get credit. my book gives them credit. i mean, for goodness sake -- men have never really even been in the story. .. >> in terms of their whol

and typically if someone invented it it was gregory pincus i suppose we would call the father but also we want to include carvel and john rock, there were a group of them that came together. and i just i guess i see it as a men and women working together that made this happen. >> guest: absolutely. i have no quarrel with that it's just it couldn't have happened without katharine mccormick's money in the beginning, and they were the ones really who brought the team together and allowed them to begin the research that would actually yield -- >> host: they were pioneers and visionaries. tell me a little bit more about margaret sanger because she is a complex figure. >> guest: she is a complex figure. coming out of the early 20th century, you know, the women's rights movement, socialist movement, she was very radical and she saw the birth control effort as a way to really liberated women from the shackles that she thought of constant childbearing especially poor women. >> host: [inaudible] >> guest: yes, and she writes in her autobiography of visiting the poor woman who had something like

my own father who live spent my life being proud of and grateful to all along with gregory pincus and all of them. my only point is that the kind of overshadow the conversation and a lot of people's minds and the women behind the scenes, now sanger and mccormick were not exactly behind the scenes they were not always in the forefront of the discussion of who really made that hill had been. neither are the hundreds of thousands of women including myself frankly who became guinea pigs for the pill and to experimental dose is and went through all of the clinical trials and all of the experimentations' and literally put their bodies on the line to bring this compound to the market. they couldn't test the bill if it were not for the women who volunteered to take an experimental drug. then you get to the women's health movement and of the women who insisted on a safer hill and on packaging and informed consent and all of that. it was the women who kind of shaped the way that the bill was going to be developed and marketed and taken and of course, you know, at the time most of the scientists

. >> guest: it had many fathers and typically if someone invented it was gregory pincus would be called the father but you want to include carl drossy and then john rock. >> guest: a group that came together and i guess i see it as men and women working together. absolutely. >> guest: it just couldn't have happened without katherine mccormicks money in the beginning and they were the ones really who brought that team together and allow them to begin the research that would actually yield the pill. >> host: there were visionaries. tell me about market singer because she's a complex figure. >> guest: she is, coming out of their early 20th-century the women's right movement and socialist movements, issue is radical and she saw the birth control effort as a way to really take women from the shackles and she thought of costs and childbearing especially poor women whose mind she saw the close-up misery. >> guest: she writes in her autobiography of visiting this poor women who had something like -- well, her own mother had something like 11 children and died in her early 50s so she was passion