> it's in some minds, there may be a sort of vision of blackness that's the way jesse jackson, pam grier or athletic icons have represented it in recent years. >> these icons of blackness that are representing in a classic, proud way. and that's beautiful. and i love them and they're my icons too. but i want to say, hey, everybody's black. it's not a religion you can be thrown out of, it's an identity you can shape in any way you want. it's portable. >> it's a biological structure. >> it goes skydiving, it goes to the ballet. >> it's a skin color? >> yeah. we look at someone like clarence thomas, we want to throw him out of the race. >> so post-blackness recent cultural norms of blackness as perceived by some group of people, we don't know -- them. whoever they are. >> right. identity cops who want to say, you're not black. >> nobody's ever said that to me. >> the beginning of this book for me, i was in college, i was living in the black house where three people lived. i was an african-american studies major, my girlfriend was a black med school student. i was running this paper that i s