grooveshark, which was finally closed down by the courts relied on the dmca to basically say we don't know who is putting a -- a legal music on their service. we have no responsibility for that. people are using the dmca to get away with basically distributed in our music without paying us or paying us below-market rates. we cannot control piracy, and we can't get the value that music deserves so long as the dmca remains that test. and therefore, we would really love to see congress focus on that. peter: 50 billion, i think was the number of illegal downloads from 2005-2009. has that changed since the licensing interactive services have come into being? cary: one of the great benefits of streaming services is that they have reduced the incentives for piracy because if you can , get all of the music that you want whenever you want it -- why would you bother going to an illegal site to download it? especially since the illegal sites have malware and adware and all sorts of things that you do not want on your machine. that has helped. but, piracy continues to evolve, and there are all so