though you know we're starting to see a little bit of headway in the sense that we decided we had grover norquist on the show a couple of weeks ago when he teamed up with and he with the a.c.l.u. also saying that the drug war needs to be heard tales that our prison system is getting too large but it always you know of course grover's way of looking about is that it's just too expensive and no we cannot afford this anymore but i don't understand why we can't also look at it in the sense as i was saying earlier that we're creating a second class of people we're tearing families apart you're just if you're creating on people you're also operating in marginal rate reading a book you loss' you're creating permanently disenfranchised people who can't vote even now they've served their time in jail they can't vote when they come out i think you do hear that even from grover are. even but from grover as well you hear that argument and there is movement now you know a couple of presidential candidates on the republican side who were staunchly anti-drug war and in some places explicitly for legali

and so even but from grover as well you hear that argument and there is movement now you have a couple of presidential candidates on the republican side who are staunchly anti drug war and in some cases explicitly for legalization there's a different kind of conversation about it we have this disconnect were people feel like that oh yeah we relax all the laws but yet we haven't we're still locking up eight hundred fifty thousand people a year just for marijuana in this country which is more than the prison population of any country and it's not even close so people think we've moved beyond their attitudes have moved on but the prison system the human the locker system. is still with us and is going to be with us for a long time now i want to get into some of those candidates that you're talking about we could say that even ron paul is one of those candidates or you could say that gary johnson is one of those candidates i feel like there is more of a libertarian wave sweeping through america right now but i'm just wondering do you think that it's going to take a conservative lawmaker a

grover norquist, thank you. i have of the afghanistan study group, the new america foundation, all of the folks that participated in today's program, those in the back behind the wall on the other screen, we've been in overflow all day, i want to thank you all very much. but again, another round of applause. thank you for joining us. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> as we wrap up that discussion from last week on the war strategy in afghanistan, we're going live it to the commission on wartime contracting in iraq and afghanistan. they were continues today with a hearing on the effectiveness of past recommendations on contract to reform. witnesses we expected from will be inspectors general for the reconstruction in iraq and afghanistan, the department of defense inspector general, and the former chair of a federal commission on army acquisition reform.

and we thank you both for being here with us, grover norquist, benjamin jealous. >> lehrer: again, theor developments of the day: the clock kept ticking toward a government shutdown, as president obama and congressional leaders held more talks. a major aftershock hit japan's northeastern coast and briefly triggered a tsunami scare. but there were no reports of new damage and rebels in eastern libya reported nato planes mistakenly hit their positions again. and to hari sreenivasan for what's on the "newshour" online. hari? >> sreenivasan: watch more of jeff's report from iowa, that's on "art beat." and check our shutdown watch blog for the latest developments in the budget negotiations in washington. plus, we talk to john merrow about his new book, "the influence of teachers," and his recent reporting on education reform. that's all on the rundown news blog. all that and more is on our web site: newshour.pbs.org. >> woodruff: and that's the "newshour" for tonight. i'm judy woodruff. >> lehrer: and i'm jim lehrer. we'll see you online and again here tomorrow evening with david brooks and

thank you for joining us, grover. coming up in a few minutes, john gage, the head of the american federation of government employees. a look at the guests making the rounds on the sunday television programs. and nancy, good morning. >> follow us on twitter. you can join in on the conversation and tweet questions directly to our "washington journal" guests. from the tv to american history on c-span3 and c-span radio. twitter.com/cspan. host: our next guest is the president of the american federation of government to employees. john, good morning. welcome back. i could hear you in the green room as a grover norquist was on. he says government workers get paid more when you take the package together compared to private sector employees. guest: i think it is a false comparison. the bureau of labor statistics does not bear that out. congressman ryan in his house budget has some really disingenuous things to say about pay and it is the same statistics that mr. norquist was quoting a. the average pay is about $70,000, and it

the entire from the civil war until the ninety early one thousand nine hundred democratic president grover cleveland moved into the white house with a plan to end the google the gilded age of billionaires and political corruption it is eight hundred eighty eight state of the union address president cleveland as we view the agreed achievements of aggregated capital we discovered the existence of trusts combinations and monopolies well the citizen is struggling far in the rear or is trampled to death behind an iron heel corporations which should be the carefully restrained creatures of the wall and the servants of the people are fast becoming the people's masters again this was coming out of the mouth of the proudest of the sitting president of the united states in his annual constitutionally mandated reporter congress on the state of the nation saying that the irony he'll of corporations were trampoline the working people of america and you imagine a president obama said something like that today grover cleveland's words by the way did not fall on deaf ears soon that corporate iron heel wou

norquist by david stockman and others you know grover say no i just want to shrink the government down to the point where i can drown it in a bathtub fills boss this is so democrats and why did they want to do this so the democrats couldn't help the phrase conservatives would use would be make dependent couldn't help people why would they not want democrats to help people because then the democrats would get people's votes and after all that's buying votes and if you do things people want this is the republican logic stop the democrats from being able to help people and people won't vote for them anymore really simple clinton stopped this thing in their tracks without a single republican vote clinton raised the tax on the top on the top one percent by three percentage points and brought us a balanced budget and a surplus but bush jr put it back on steroids that obama has inherited and by the way has extended the bush tax cut which i think is insane but you know he was he was in a box i think he's going to change this and frankly it's time to roll back the reagan tax cuts and get us bac

the issue is prison reform soulseek with grover norquist and get his take on why this issue is so important for america and then could our troops stay in iraq past the withdrawal deadline according to secretary of defense robert gates that just might happen but can the u.s. afford to keep troops there any longer and what happened to obama's promise to end this war we'll cover all those stories and much more it's a night show but first our top story. one day away from the prospects of a government shutdown and it doesn't look like congress. any closer to reaching a deal at this point the debate is over seven billion dollars and after the president hosted a meeting last night with john boehner and harry reid came out and said that neither a number nor a policy had been agreed to there's one thing that seems both sides are happy to see fly under the radar in this entire debacle the fact the defense spending is getting off scot free the fact that it's not even a part of the debate but once again consider the unthinkable untouchable sacred cash cow democrats really want to prove that this isn't

and conservatives like grover norquist have teamed up on a cots one that's long overdue prison reform let me just remind you that america has the highest known incarceration rate in the world the two point three million people are sitting in u.s. prisons and that's nearly one in every one hundred cults and many of these people are there for nonviolent crimes but what would make the tough on crime conservatives want to actually join with the liberals on this one well what else money as states all across the country face budget crises it's starting to make sense that our prison system is where we could definitely afford to cut without making the streets of america and he more dangerous so today the end of lease if he released a new report on the issue called misplaced priorities under educate over incarcerate so could this high profile to be the perfect combination to finally bring about some change earlier i caught up with grover norquist the president of americans for tax reform was also a member of the board of directors the n.r.a. and us on the advisory council of go out and i first

with grover norquist the president of americans for tax reform. you know sometimes you see a story and it seems so. you think you understand it and then you know here's some other part of the.

. >> do you think we are about to roll grover norquist? >> i think that in order to make -- to get the deal that needs to be done, that will have to be part of it. >> there goes your invitation to the wednesday meeting. [laughter] >> i want to come back to what jan brought up tangentially, something you hear a lot in different panels and studies, this notion that we cannot really deal with this debt and spending problem until after the next election. people have put that forward coming from many different standpoints. one is that only the current president free of the burdens of re-election can get this done. and then only a newly elected republican president with a fresh mandate can get this done. and then we need to have another election in which there is an even stronger mandate for spending reduction than the last one. i do not buy any of that. we have had the election. the best we are going to have in terms of a mandate for spending reduction. tell me if i'm right. i do not remember any election in which deficit, debt, and spending we

grover cleveland was president at the time. he refused to annex hawaii.y had to wait for him to leave office before they could. they realized they would have to be a government in that time and needed a constitution. a representative is writing his old buddies in charge in honolulu saying they should check out the constitution of the new state of mississippi. the jim crow masterpiece. they have figured out how to disenfranchise all of the former slaves in mississippi. we can also apply that to the hawaiians and the asian plantation workers. then he had the gall to say that the new country should have the word republic in the title. he wanted it to be called a republic but not be one. tavis: we know why we wanted to annex these places. you can put faces on them and want things from them. what are we using hawaii, guam, and puerto rico for these days? >> is not all nefarious. they support the independence of south korea. we also support the independence of taiwan. they do good work there. there are some other things we did in the 20th century from those hea

which are at the heart of his proposals. 235 house members have signed the no new taxes pledge of grover norquist. they're not going do sign on to a trillion dollars of new taxes some have this tremendous conflict here. there will be no get bargain. what we're going to get is, however, basically what boehner and obama and reid put together, and so you'll get marginal increases or cuts on various things. it's going to -- anger and enrage the tea party and republican party especially, if they go through revenue enhancement. on the other side you'll get a split in the democratic party because they're already screaming with the cuts that have been made, which have been insignificant some i think you'll get both parties divided. >> is there anything left for to you say now? >> that was such a workish examination of what is going on! two political figures have set down their markers, and they're going to provide the parameters for the debate that will take us into the next presidential election, and that is the role of government and how much responsibility the federal government is going to t

and how that happened was when grover cleeveland was campaigning for the presidency, his wife died.he married the nanny. and the nanny was only 19. and had five children in the white house. so the reason why i thought about that and it struck me is today, and you know we're supposed to be an advanced society. but today, we would not accept an 18 or 19-year-old as first lady. it just wouldn't happen. >> my time with larry is up now but i'm not done with this conversation so i'm going to ask you to go to our website because i've got the good stuff. and i'm going to get to it right now. if you go to pbs.org you can see the rest of this conversation with larry flint. we'll continue with this on pbs.org. that's our show for the night. i'll see you next time. until then good knight from l.a. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit on pbs.org. >> joining me this week from new york with our guests. all next week. we'll see you then. >>

it is a little incoherent to do it this way but that is grover cleveland. there are wonderful passages about grover cleveland that i owe it to mark twain to read simply because that gives a better idea that i can on my own. mark twain did not know cleveland when they were residents in buffalo and this is the account of how they just met. during the time we were in buffalo, mr. cleveland was a share of but i never happen to make his acquaintance are even see him. in fact, i suppose i was not even aware of his existence. 14 years later the greatest man in the state i was not living in the state at the time. [laughter] i was on the public highway and we were robbing the public with readings from our works and over the course of time we went to albany. i said we ought to pay our respects to the governor. we went to the majestic capitol building and were shown into the governor's private office and i saw him for the first time. we stood chatting. i was born lazy and a comforted myself turning the table into a seat. the governor said mr. cleamons i was a fellow c

new chapter of its history by sharing in the manned exploration of space and the people across the grover crow globe are marking the anniversary of eureka and pioneering flight today he says from similar reports from the cosmodrome that propelled the first man into space i'm here in baikonur where many significant events in space history had taken place not least of which was the first successful manned space flight well it all began here because on this day fifty years ago cosmonaut utica got aboard his last one capsule and blasted off into space well that launch pad where he had taken off from is now called the garden start it's the very same launch pad used by the a so used to it may twenty one crew when they left for space on april five were going to the international space station they were of course in a spacecraft that had the image of eureka got it to mark this anniversary well since then a lot of there's a long list of achievements in terms of space exploration what different countries . have died in that field well we have been speaking to the astronauts and for them one of the

but president grover cleveland presiding over the event and the vegas lady liberty that was built in the one nine hundred ninety s. as part of a major theme showcasing new york city on the south end of the vegas strip big difference you guys now the post office has already printed three billion at lady liberty stamps and they're in circulation and the agency says they have no plans to pulled remaining stamps from the market but let's face it this is pretty embarrassing for a government agency and recent years the post office has fallen on hard times the agency lost eight point five billion dollars last year they've cut more than one hundred thousand jobs over the past two years and they've closed offices around the u.s. they've even proposed cutting mail delivery to five days a week instead of six all in an effort to save money now for its part the post office says the bill going they're going to read examine this process to prevent this from happening again and i would hope so a spokesman person said that the post office was honoring not just one great american institution but in re

grover cleveland, a couple of wonderful passages about grover cleveland. but i think i've really owe it to mark twain to read simply because that gives a better idea of the autobiography. i can on my own. mark twain did not know cleveland when they were told residents in buffalo. this is an account of how they first met. during the time that we were in buffalo or mark twain was in buffalo in '70 and '71 mr. cleveland was shares. and never happened to make his acquaintance or even see him. in fact, i suppose i was not even aware of his existence. fourteen years later he has become the greatest man in the state. in addition i was not living in the state of the time. [laughter] that's pretty good. i was not living in the state of the time. lost one place. side. at the time i was on the public highway in company with another banded wrapping the public with reading some art works. in the course of time we went to albany to levy tribute. asset we ought to go and pay our respects. we went to that majestic capitol building in stated our arendt. we were shown into

. >> jimmy: oh, grover. hey, we have a good show for you tonight. ku kunal nayyar is here.antogram. and we'll be right back with christoph waltz, so stick around. [ woman ] nine iron, it's almost tee time. time to face the pollen that used to make me sneeze. but with zyrtec® liquid gels, i get fast, 24-hour allergy relief. so i feel better by the time we tee off. zyrtec® liquid gels work fast, so i can love the air®. ♪give me land lots of land ♪under starry skies above ♪don't fence me in ♪let me ride through the wide open country♪ ♪don't fence me in... the nokia astound smartphone music video games ...and more available exclusively at t-mobile [ female announcer ] degree asked women to use these jingle bells during one entire day so they realize how much they move. [ bells jingling ] [ bells jingling ] that's why degree created the new motionsense technology, the only formula activated directly by movement to release bursts of freshness all day keeping you protected for longer than the leading antiperspirant. the more you move, the more it works. degree. it won't let you do

party, you have the grover norquist types saying, don't raise taxes on anybody. >> do you think presidentma is as involved in, for instance, the budget battles going on in congress as you would like to see him? >> in classic obama fashion he's involved but tries to conceal his hand. he's the most reticent chief executive i can remember. yesterday, saturday, he was on the phone to john boehner and harry reid, trying to talk about the details of the compromise they hope will be coming this week. on the question that paul is raising, whether we're every going to get to the point of talking about tax simplification, changes that would lead to reductions in the deficit, i think the white house is getting ready for a process. i think it could come quite soon, by june, july, in which the white house will begin to roll out ideas similar to the simpson-bowles deficit commission. i think we could have, this summer, a very big and important debate on how to get these numbers better. >> we didn't get to talk about the big cuts that have to be made in entitlements with the senators. and also on the pe

. >> to you think we are about to roll grover norquist? >> i think that in order to make -- to get the deal that needs to be done, that will have to be part of it. >> there goes your invitation to the wednesday meeting. [laughter] >> i want to come back to what jan brought up tangentially, something you hear a lot in different panels and studies, this notion that we cannot really deal with this debt and spending problem until after the next election. people have put that forward coming from many different standpoints. one is that only our real president free of the burdens of re-election can get this done. and only a newly overacted -- newly elected republican president with a fresh mandate can get this done. and then we need to have another election its wish there is an even stronger mandate for spending reduction than the last one. i do not buy any of that. we have had the election. the best we are going to have in terms of a mandate for spending reduction. tell me if i'm right. i do not remember any election in which deficit, debt, and

somebody mentioned grover norquist. that's what grover is objecting to.major league heartburn for republicans. if you're a progressive democrat, you're not -- you're not imposing a millionaire's tax. you're bringing down marginal rates on both individuals and corporations. that's the only way the republicans will support a net revenue increase if in the framework of a progrowth tax reform and republicans believe that reducing marginal rates on both corporations and individuals is a progrowth tax reform. so you got a really difficult sell on both sides of the aisle for that but i think it's possible -- you know, ryan and the house republicans who voted against bowles-simpson have gone out of their way to make clear they did not do so because of the revenue provisions but of the failure of bowles-simpson of spending. but you do a revenue-raising progrowth and reform the tax agreed. but that's not going to happen. that's contrary to basic republican economic philosophy. >> okay, why don't we go right here. [inaudible] >> wait one second for the microphone. o

we will talk about federal spending and the budget with grover norquist.ournal" the 7:00 eastern on c-span. >> in his weekly address, president obama talks about friday night's federal spending agreement that avoided a government shutdown. he also talks about the need for future compromise. paul ryan also discusses the federal spending agreement as well as his proposed budget for next year. folks can visit our national museums and parks, and hundreds of thousands of americans will get their pay checks on time, including the brave men and women in uniform. this is an agreement to invest in the future, while reaching -- one making the largest annual spending cut in our history. this required everyone to give ground on issues that were important to them. i certainly did. some of the cuts we agreed to will be painful. programs people rely on will be cut back. needed infrastructure projects will be delayed. i would have not made these cuts and better circumstances. -- in better circumstances. beginning to live within our means is the only way to protect the inv

we actually got grover norquist to stand up with us with a passionate statement from newt gingrich tous. these policies have failed us miserably. they are wasting a whole bunch of money. our country needs to do something different. we evening that the head of a large -- the largest prison unit in the country to stand up with us and say not only that, but we need to take the money we are wasting and give it to our public universities. in california when i was a kid, they spent 11% on public universities. now it is 11% on prisons and 7.5% on public universities. that is a huge turnaround. they used to be the best universities in the world. it is no longer the case. they are squandering money trying to solve social problems with prison. there ways to do it that are more humane. with regards to the great leader, you can look back at the record of the naacp. we have always been supportive and involved. what did they argue about? they argue about whether blacks should stay in this country are laid. we are unapologetic about saying that blacks ought to be a part of this country. i have famil

it says that grover norquist, leader of of americans for tax reform, could see him as a white house chieff staff for a vice- president. ron paul is expected to announce today the creation of a presidential exploratory committee. this could trump those who have not made a decision whether to run. and they notably talk about mixed daniels, the governor from indiana. other politicians news. here is a new poll about donald trump running for president. he is fired up but he likely will not be hired. broad resistance, 63% of americans, including 43% of republicans saying they would not vote for trump for president. in the same poll, 38% say that obama was definitely born in the u.s.. 15% say that he was probably born in another country. 9% say that he was definitely born elsewhere. manhattan, credit is a democrat. what is the role of whistleblowers? caller: if you are a diplomat and you are with your counterpart and you have been given the mission and the person you're talking to tends to be a nincompoop or is not getting what you're getting at, sometimes you have to appeal to their vanity, or

host: grover norquist group has a longstanding anti-tax pledge. are you supportive of that pledge? guest: absolutely. tax increases served no beneficial role. never one, they harm the economy. increasing taxes now does nothing to stimulate the economy and create jobs. number two, it does not create revenue. a lot of times it will in the short run, but over the long run, it does nothing to help improve the government's finances or the economy. host: one feature of the "new york times" editorial page is this a tax fund. he talks about the so-called gang of six, after republicans, three democrats focused on -- three republicans, three democrats focused on the deficit. it goes further than just a pledge not to raise taxes. guest: i think there are two issues here. dr. cockburn is very much on target when it comes to ethanol. it is a subject that we need to get rid of. i think his proposal is, however, imperfect. ethanol receives subsidies and mandates and tariffs from the u.s. government. they're very few things out there that see that trisect accurate if we were going to attack -- let

we will talk about federal spending and the budget with grover norquiest. and then a conversation with john gage. "washington journal" on c-span. >> in his weekly address, president obama talked about federal spending agreement that averted a shutout. he also talked about the need of continued compromise in future negotiations. then, paul ryan also discusses the federal agreement as well as his proposed budget for next year. >> this is good news for american -- the american people. folks can visit our museums and parks and hundreds of thousands of americans will get their paychecks on-time including our brave men and women in uniform. this agreement invests in our country's future while making the largest cut in history. like any compromise, this requires everyone to give ground that was important. i certainly did. some of the cuts will be painful. programs people read by an will be cut back. projects will be delayed. i would not have made these cuts in better circumstances. we also prevented this debate from being overtaken by politics and disagreements on

we actually got grover norquist to stand up with us with a passionate statement from newt gingrich to join us. these policies have failed us miserably. they are wasting a whole bunch of money. our country needs to do something different. we evening that the head of a large -- the largest prison unit in the country to stand up with us and say not only that, but we need to take the money we are wasting and give it to our public universities. in california when i was a kid, they spent 11% on public universities. now it is 11% on prisons and 7.5% on public universities. that is a huge turnaround. they used to be the best universities in the world. it is no longer the case. they are squandering money trying to solve social problems with prison. there ways to do it that are more humane. with regards to the great leader, you can look back at the record of the naacp. we have always been supportive and involved. what did they argue about? they argue about whether blacks should stay in this country are laid. we are unapologetic about saying that blacks ought to be a part of this country. i have

grover norquist who has been following this efforts from his perspective. also, john gage, from the union that represents federal employees who will be our guest from 9:20-10:00 we take a look at the papers and more on "washington journal." we will see you there. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2011] >> a couple of house arms services committee hearings, starting with a look at u.s. military and logistic and africa operations. then a look at the don't ask, don't tell policy. sunday, on "newsmakers," reince priebus on possible 2012 gop candidates. that is at 10:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span. >> as a host and a traitor, you are not necessarily a republican or a democrat. you are looking at what the government is doing and the effects on the financial market, whether it is trading or wall street firms. >> sunday melissa lee on what she believes is her role in reporting business and financial news. sunday night at 8:00 p.m. night on "q & a." >> duncan mcnabb testified on t

grover norquist that newt gingrich to work on this. our country needs to do something different. we even have an association in this country and we need to give it to public universities. 11% in public universities. 11% to spent on public universities. a huge turn of events. back then, those schools were thought to be the best public universities in the world, but it is no longer the case. absolutely attributable to trying to solve social problems with present. you can look back at the naacp and our members have always been supportive and involved. what did they famously argue about? we are unapologetic about saying that a blood -- that black people are a key part of this country. we built this country and will stay in this country. but if you look at malcolm x, for instance, at the end of his life, when he was assassinated, in a sense he was coming much closer to civil rights. he was a great man. frankly some of the greatest news this country has had, if not the most controversial. host: 1 million of the total 2.3 million population of incarcerated people is represented by black

host: grover norquist group has a longstanding anti-tax pledge. are you supportive of that pledge? guest: absolutely. tax increases served no beneficial role. never one, they harm the economy. increasing taxes now does nothing to stimulate the economy and create jobs. number two, it does not create revenue. a lot of times it will in the short run, but over the long run, it does nothing to help improve the government's finances or the economy. host: one feature of the "new york times" editorial page is this a tax fund. he talks about the so-called gang of six, after republicans, three democrats focused on -- three republicans, three democrats focused on the deficit. it goes further than just a pledge not to raise taxes. guest: i think there are two issues here. dr. cockburn is very much on target when it comes to ethanol. it is a subject that we need to get rid of. i think his proposal is, however, imperfect. ethanol receives subsidies and mandates and tariffs from the u.s. government. they're very few things out there that see that trisect accurate if we were going to attack -- let

we actually got grover norquist to stand up with us with a passionate statement from newt gingrich to join us. these policies have failed us miserably. they are wasting a whole bunch of money. our country needs to do something different. we evening that the head of a large -- the largest prison unit in the country to stand up with us and say not only that, but we need to take the money we are wasting and give it to our public universities. in california when i was a kid, they spent 11% on public universities. now it is 11% on prisons and 7.5% on public universities. that is a huge turnaround. they used to be the best universities in the world. it is no longer the case. they are squandering money trying to solve social problems with prison. there ways to do it that are more humane. with regards to the great leader, you can look back at the record of the naacp. we have always been supportive and involved. what did they argue about? they argue about whether blacks should stay in this country are laid. we are unapologetic about saying that blacks ought to be a part of this country. i have