what do you think of grover norquist?son: ( snorts ) >> kroft: simpson gleefully accepts that he is one of norquist's republican rat heads in the coke bottle. he got there by serving as co- chairman of the national commission on fiscal responsibility, which recommended that some tax increases would be necessary to solve the nation's debt problem. simpson has no use for norquist. >> simpson: he may well be the most powerful man in america today. so if that's what he wants, he's got it. you know, he's a megalomaniac, egomaniac, whatever you want to call him. if that's his goal, he's damn near there. he ought to run for president because that will be his platform-- "no taxes, under any situation, even if your country goes to hell." >> kroft: simpson also wants to know where norquist and americans for tax reform, with its multimillion-dollar budget, gets its money. >> simpson: when you get this powerful, and he is, then it's, "where do you get your scratch, grover?" is it two people? is it ten million people? the american peo

this is the crazy going after grover norquist now. >> i mean, grover norquist happens to have a muslim, right? isn't it? that's enough for those guys. >> not only that, he was the chief strategist for george w. bush and his outreach to muslim and arab americans. so in frank gaffney's world, it seems to be enough if you have associations with muslim-americans or have if you happen to be muslim-american. so this is an interesting fight now playing out on the right between norquist and gaffney. >> and amanda, why does it sound like a landlord/tenant gripe. he talks about, i sublet space from grover and now i'm wicked mad at him. >> it seems very, very personal, like there's some sort of vendetta there, and i'm not sure what it is. but people have reviewed, other conservatives have reviewed, the evidence that frank gaffney has put out there against grover norquist and other individuals gaffney has gone after, and they've said, this seems to be nothing more than conspiracy theories and bigotry. >> what is gaffney's big evidence against grover norquist being some sort of infiltrator? >> i me

, grover nor quist. and everyone knows he is not a guy you want cross. >> p grover norquist is not into compromise. those who refuse to sign the pledge or blackside are subjected to primary fights against well funded opponents backed by him. >> never do they compromise on grover norquist. he is the leader. >> he is a hue deanism you could throw him in the bottom east river in chains and he would come out of there. >> stephen: you can't kill him. he's like the terminator combined with a phoenix combined with a guy that just read atlas shrug. [ laughter ] the g.o.p. cannot go back on their pledge to the tax master but the dems think they've got a work around. you see senate democrats are proposing a novel way to circumvent the republican pledge, allowing all the tax cuts to expire january 1 and then vote on a tax cut for the middle class. this way the republicans can say they didn't vote for a tax increase on the top 2% that just kind of happened. they voted on a tax cut for the bottom 98%. they are thinki

president grover grover cleveland who was one of the best presidents in american history that we had one of the last good democrat in the in eight hundred eighty seven in his speeches his annual address to the nation is his state of the union address said that we are seeing corporations rise up and put their irony on the necks of the

let's take a look. >> do you agree with the grover norquist pledge?ce three times. the plan was presented to me three times. i never signed the pledge. i cut taxes every year i was governor. i don't believe that outsource your principles and convictions to people. i respect grover's political involvement. he's every right to do it. but i never signed any pledge. >> former governor jeb bush's father had this to say, the ridgity of those pledges is something i don't like. >> wait a second -- for the record, something that jeb bush should have been a little bit of aware of and his father, that commitment that most republicans who run for office make, is to the american people and to the people of their state. when george herbert walker bush, ran for president, he promised the american people that he wasn't going to raise the taxes. he lied to them. he broke his commitment. they threw him out of the office four years later. he lied to the american people. >> all right, senator, you signed the norquist pledge. yet, during the 2011 super committee negotiati

. >> schieffer: we'll talk about taxes in general with the antitax leader grover norquist, and neera tandem of the center for american progress. analysis on all of it from "newsweek" contributor myer ferguson. >> nia malika-henderson of the "washington post," and our own john dickerson. plus pro-publica of the impact of these new superpacs and one of the very first negative campaign ads. >> go away, lady, you bother me. >> schieffer: this is "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs from cbs news in washington, "face the nation" with bob schieffer. >> schieffer: and good morning again, and welcome to fails the nation. former new york city rudy giuliani and dick durbin join us from their home states to talk about this campaign. mr. mayor, i want to start with you. i want to ask you about your remarks about the vice preside president. did you really say at some place along the way-- i mean i heard you in the sound bite at the top of this broadcast-- that you were worried-- >> i said it. >> schieffer: you what? >> i said i-- after not knowing what state he was in, not knowing what

grover norquist and michael linden. welcome to you both. >> good to be with you. >> you're now in pre-election mode which i would imagine means you'll be more aggressive about this than normal, right? >> sure, if you want. >> let's be serious for a minute. you will enjoy this. i want you to treat me like a complete simpleton. i want you to tell me in easy to understand words and phrases the difference between the ryan budget plan and the one that romney would like to bring it. >> there's the ryan budget that is actually been written down and scored by cbo, passed by the republican house and got most of the republican votes in the senate, which gives you a very good outline of where republican thinking is. it takes the clinton approach toward welfare reform, which was passed in '96 and extends it to the various means tested other welfare programs like medicaid and food stamps and programs like that. then it takes medicare and takes the bipartisan approach that he worked out with wyden and moves that so nothing changes fo

what about you, grover?carmelo, my good friend anthony. >> carmelo anthony. >> it's the other way around. >> yeah, whatever. >> what you have guys been doing since you've been in london? >> we just got in yesterday so we haven't been doing that much yet. >> we've been napping a lot. >> we're going to women's soccer tonight. >> cool. so am i! i'm going to be there, savannah and i. will you be our dates? >> i want mommy and daddy to be there because we're going to be there pretty late. >> what has inspired you guys about these games? >> everything! >> you bet. >> what did elmo learn about is sportsmanship. >> what else have you learned? >> teamwork. >> persistence. >> very nice. >> abby, are there any events for fairies? >> some of the events we get disqualified because of the wings, you know. >> you'd be great in the high jump. >> yeah. >> i'd be great in the low jump, i think. >> have you guys had any british food? >> we tried not to. >> elmo likes to get some figgy pudding. >> do you want to grow up to be a

grover did a nice gloss on the ryan and romney plan.glected to say is that ryan and romney have so far refused to explain how they'll pay for the $5 trillion in tax cuts they promised the wealthy over the next ten years. there's two ways they can pay for that. they can either raise taxes on the middle class or pay for it with more debt. that's pretty much the only way to do it. that's partly why they haven't explained how they're going to pay for it because that's not exactly popular. >> grover, i saw you grimacing away as i would expect. answer me this. i don't hear tens of millions of americans running around screaming, you know what? we've got to have tax cuts for the wealthy. what i hear are tens of millions of americans who are deeply hurting in this financial crisis still. they are unemployed or they lost their homes or whatever it may be, the one thing they're not doing is demanding more tax cuts for the rich. and that's where i can't see this argument resonating with the core voter. what do you do about that? >> there are two th

grover norquist. yes pab that norquist.nti-tax crusader who's got 95% of the republicans to pledge never to raise taxes. he's accused norquist of working with the enemy. in turn norquist has called gaffney i think appropriately, a conspiracy theorist. for some it was a step too far. last year gaffney was barred from speaking at the c-pac convention but he's not backing down. by the way "the huffington post" is unbelievable these days. it's zooming. >> thank you. >> what do you make of this? you're covering as a straight reporter. tell me, is frank gaffney okay? i mean, he -- i'm going to get to it at the end of the show, but his accusations about logos and missile defense agency may be islamic symbols. he's finding things out there that may be delusional. >> more con sefbtives are lining up. john boehner, john mccain saying that he's pedaling his conspiracy theories. he's been accused of bigotry by members of his own -- >> bigotry towards whom? >> muslim-americans. and they've been accused of being members of the muslim bro

and grover norquist founder of americans for tax reform. austin goolsbee.ntative chris van hollen. and neil barofsky, the former t.a.r.p. special inspector general. welcome our audience here at the studio. >>> but before we begin our discussion, let's take a quick look at what the stakes are. do you hear that in the distance? two ticking time bombs threatening to send the economy back into recession or worse. the first, just over four months until it detonates, it's that fiscal cliff that you hear about unless washington gets its act together. >> let's get the job done. >> a big if. as we ring in 2013, the ball will also drop on the economy, huge, automatic government fu spending cuts. good-bye, mount rushmore. simultaneously tax increases will go into effect. the bush tax cuts, good-bye. the long-term picture even worse. and that brings us to the second time bomb. as the baby boomers retire the commitments that we have made to seniors will balloon, over the next 75 years, medicare will run a deficit of more than $30 trillion, two times the entire size of t

grover, always good to have you on the program. >> good to be with you. >> i guess grover, you made thatof i'll call it notorious comment to "new york" magazine saying we need a president with ten functioning digit tos to si the ryan budget plan into law. does mitt romney have those ten digits? i ask you not in a literal sense, but he has his own budget plan. how confident are you it's going to be close to the paul ryan budget plan? >> the reason i said that, i was contrasting this presidential campaign and the republican primary with nixon/rockefeller, ford/reagan, reagan/bush, where picking a republican president meant a very different direction for the republican party. this time around, you had ten people running, romney was one of them, who were all running as reagan republicans and we had a republican agenda from the house and the senate which is embodied in the ryan budget reforms, just as when reagan ran in '80, what was he running on? kemp/roth, on the republican congressionally supported across the board tax cuts. now, when reagan got in, kemp/roth became the reagan tax cut. it

fellow conservative grover norquist, yes, that grover norquist, the anti-tax crusader who has 95% of in congress to pledge to never raise taxes. he's accused norquist of working with the enemy, helping the muslim brotherhood for infill crea traiting the government. in turn norquist has called gaffney i think appropriately, a conspiracy theorist. for some it was a step too far. last year gaffney was barred from speaking at the cpac convention but he's not backing down. what do you make of this? you're covering it as a straight reporter. tell me, is frank gaffney okay? i mean, he -- i'm going to get to it at the end of the show, but his accusations about logos and missile defense agency may be islamic symbols. he's finding things out there that may be delusional. >> more conservatives are lining up, john boehner, marco rubio, john mccain saying, look, he's pedaling in conspiracy theories, he's been accused of bigotry. >> bigotry towards whom? >> muslim-americans. they've been accused of being members of the muslim brotherhood with very, very little evidence and other conservatives are

street lobbyist grover norquist as the financial times writes grover norquist the anti-tax crusader who wields considerable influence among conservative lawmakers said republicans could use an arcane congressional mechanism to push through ninety eight percent of their agenda if mitt romney wins the white house including a controversial overhaul of medicare. so what is this arcane congressional mechanism that norquist speaks up it's called budget reconciliation and it means that anything pertaining to the federal budget spending and taxes can be passed with a simple majority in the senate just fifty one votes instead of the supermajority sixty votes the republicans have forced in the senate for the last three and a half years now the words of republicans can roll up their entire agenda in the form of a budget and the democratic minority won't be able to stop it that's exactly why paul ryan and the republicans didn't introduce their plans to end medicare as we know it turning it into a voucher program and leaving seniors at the mercy of the for profit health insurance program as an indiv

grover norquist of americans for lou: grover, it is good to have you here. >> it's good to be here beone e must turn to the fact that there seems to be no energy in washington dc to relatedt give concerns, if not give leadership to this country. on the issue of the fiscal w cliff. whether it is sequestration it budget cuts or whether it be a u cut in the current tax rates by allowing the bush tax cuts laste >> we don't know what's going to happen. it will all be decided one way or a the other on november 6. if governor romney is elected president with the present republican house and incoming republican senate committee will extend all of the lower taxes for one year. do tax reform, top 25%, territoriality expensing, but ryan plan, reform entitlements. the ryan budget print. that's if you have the republican government. no tax increase, and serious serious spending reform. if obama is elected president, there is a 500 billion-dollar tax increase if the democrats are in charge next year or a 5 trillion over the next decade. lou: so what you are saying -- what you are saying is that sen

grover cleveland, we don't know much about him. i do not before i started this, and to be honest i don't really. [laughter] but i know enough to be able to talk about it a little bit. what we know about him is that he is the only president who served two nonconsecutive terms. after each of his terms, his body was tossed out of the white house. the first time was after he was on the ticket in the second time was basically after they said we don't want you on the ticket, but the voters tossed out the democrats under william jennings bryan and william mckinley. he really is the only two-time one term president in our history. my question is how in the world, if you think that the voters are not totally stupid, how in the world can he be considered number eight? i don't think he should be down there at 27. but he seems a little rich. for me. his first defeat was a near thing. but he lost the electoral college. his first term was a defense, though probably not exemplars. the interstate commerce act was passed. it was an important piece

grover norquist of americans for tax reform joins us next lou: grover, it is good to have you here. > it's good to be here be one e must turn to the fact that there seems to be no energy in washington dc to relatedt give concerns, if not give leadership to this country. on the issue of the fiscal w cliff. whether it is sequestration it budget cuts or whether it be a u cut in the current tax rates by allowing the bush tax cuts laste >> we don't know what's going to happen. it will all be decided one way or a the other on november 6. if governor romney is elected president with the present republican house and incoming republican senate committee will extend all of the lower taxes for one year. do tax reform, top 25%, territoriality expensing, but ryan plan, reform entitlements. the ryan budget print. that's if you have the republican government. no tax increase, and serious serious spending reform. if obama is elected president, there is a 500 billion-dollar tax increase if the democrats are in charge next year or a 5 trillion over the next decade. lou: so what you are saying -- what y

i am particularly delighted to have grover norquist here. grover is one of those people about whom is often said in these kinds of settings, he needs no introduction, but i am going to give him one anyway, because he is too interesting not to. he is a massachusetts native, harvard b.a. and mba. he quickly gravitated to the district of columbia, where he has significant position to the u.s. taxpayers association. he is the author of a recent book, "debacle." in 1985, he founded americans for tax reform, whose aim was to reduce government receipts as a percentage of gdp. he believes in a smaller government. he believes in getting a handle on the debt overhang, which i believe is the most serious problem facing the country today. his most famous for the famous pledge, getting members of congress and other politicians to promise not to vote for any increase in marginal tax rates for either individuals or businesses and not to vote for any net reductions in credits unless there is a commensurate reduction in rates. as of late last year, 238, i am

neil: grover, it is very good to see you again. the seriousness of spending became front and center. a seriousness about isaac in this area. people are questioning if the residents are being serious enough. michael brown is continuing with us next day one of the republican national convention. this is $100,000. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much, i appreciate it, i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money ? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. no nonsense. just people sense. ♪ the one and only, cheerios ♪ forz(power!) andiamo! andiamo! (let's go! let's go!) avanti! avanti! (keep going! keep going!) hahaha...hahahaha! you know ronny, folks who save hundreds of dollars by switching to geico sure are happy. and how happy are they jimmy? happier than christopher columbus with speedboats. that's happy! get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. dad, we want pizza. you guys said

cleveland, steven grover cleveland, called "grover cleveland: a study in courage." two volumes. more than you really want to read about the guy. [laughter] i, my next project is, actually, the 890s -- 1890s and william mckinley, so i'm going to have to read both of these volumes, and i'm not sure that i'm looking forward to it. but alan 9/11s is a -- never vin is the a beautiful writer, so i'm sure it's going to be a wonderful book, a wonderful biography. so i think that probably the influence of allan nevins on his colleagues influenced that rating. and cleveland has trickled down since then, but he's still rather high, often in 12th, 13th, 14th. now let's talk about john adams. obviously, a great man, obviously, a great patriot, a great contribute tore our nation's birth as we all know from david mccullough and that wonderful hbo miniseries, but he was not a great president. he presided over french abuse of u.s. commercial shipping that got to be really problem proble. he signed and really kind of fostered the alien and sedition acts which criminalized public crit

>> grover? >> grover, we had a conversation about this yesterday.ives who also believe that should apply to foreign policy. look at the madness. and you were describing this yesterday. >> yes. >> about the defense spending and -- >> modern republican party that wants to say, look, let's limit spending, has to look at the pentagon spending with the same jaundice eye, the same seriousness and account for, as we do with teacher's spending. >> we haven't done that. >> we haven't. and we need to focus on it. >> but we're trying. >> if you're serious about national defense, you don't want to waste money there. you can't allow the democrats to say we care about poor people. we're throwing money at it and respond we care about defense, we're throwing money at the pentagon. >> the great thing that grover said yesterday is that democrats, talking about the stimulus spending on domestic. we're going to spend a lot of money on the economy, domestic economy and it's going to grow the economy magically. you talk to some republicans about defense cuts, they go, bu

thank you very much grover. good to see you. >> good to see you.pared wisconsin and illinois before on this program. scott walker taking real measures to tackle wisconsin's budget problems. contrast that with pat quinn in illinois, his state just got a downgrade, that's illinois. we're talking about that next. it is a hot issue, so hot that they are screaming about it in the illinois statehouse. >> -- you should be ashamed of yourselves! [ male announcer ] if you have to take care of legal matters. legalzoom has an easy and affordable option. you get quality services on your terms, with total customer support, backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. so go to legalzoom.com today and see for yourself. stuart: we now have a sharp decline for stock prices this thursday morning. the dow industrials down triple digits. jobless claims for the latest week, 374,000, worse than expected. and no improvement in the labor market. maybe that's a drag on stocks. but look at pandora, this is an internet music service. you can listen for free with commercials. or

norquist -- i want to salute grover norquist.which is the sign of progress even if he has to distort the whole welfare story in the process. >> he did sign the bill. >> every other part of the story is wrong. i want to inject a note of bipartisanship. listening to you carefully here and on other occasions, i have the impression that your attitude towards american intervention abroad as much closer to barack obama than to mitt romney. and number two, the one issue where you really think the republicans could blow the election is on form policy. is that right or wrong? >> obama triple the number troops in afghanistan when he came into office. i would not allow myself with his views on occupy other countries. will was the second part of that? -- what was the second part of that? >> their approach to future intervention, it sounds to me -- it is clear that you are an anti-interventionist and that the republican party is far more sympathetic to intervention and the obama administration. but this is a very interesting question. i wonde

i am particularly delighted to have grover norquist here. grover is one of those people about whom is often said in these kinds of settings, he needs no introduction, but i am going to give him one anyway, because he is too interesting not to. he is a massachusetts native, harvard b.a. and mba. he quickly gravitated to the district of columbia, where he has significant position to the u.s. taxpayers association. he is the author of a recent book, "debacle." in 1985, he founded americans for tax reform, whose aim was to reduce government receipts as a percentage of gdp. he believes in a smaller government. he believes in getting a handle on the debt overhang, which i believe is the most serious problem facing the country today. his most famous for the famous pledge, getting members of congress and other politicians to promise not to vote for any increase in marginal tax rates for either individuals or businesses and not to vote for any net reductions in credits unless there is a commensurate reduction in rates. as of late last year, 238, i am

on the rich something paul ryan is not allowed to do because he signed multimillionaire lobbyist grover norquist tax pledge you'd be hard pressed right now to find one other convention speech in our nation's history riddled with more allies than paul ryan's which begs the question why why did paul ryan the rest of the republican party have to lie about their agenda well frankly it's because their agenda is based in fantasy actually it's even worse it's because their agenda is based on crippling the united states it's based on sucking the life out of the middle class and turning the united states into a corporatocracy an oligarchy they can't be honest about that their agenda is the same agenda that's been carried out over the last thirty years with disastrous results a shrinking middle class record poverty record wealth inequality it has just been carried out the united states by the way but all over the western world today europe is collapsing under the weight of it and paul ryan are republicans when the united states will suffer and even more catastrophic collapse and paul ryan knows i

it. >> so steve latourette thinks congress is an alcoholic who hasn't hit bottom yet, and he says groverhe bartender. he talked about the simpson/bowles plan which reduces income tax rates but finds other ways to increase through taxation. when congressman latourette supported simpson bowles, he got a call from congress' bartender. >> when we rolled it out, grover norquist called me and said you're raising taxes $2 trillion. he said we don't look at individual tax rates. we look at the aggregate of tax revenue versus gdp. and i said crap, i mean, nobody where i grew up understands that kind of baloney. >> if congress could really understand that congress' bartender is really serving them baloney, they might actually be able to get something done. [mu♪ ♪ [music plays] it's something you're born with. and inspires the things you choose to do. you do what you do... because it matters. at hp we don't just believe in the power of technology. we believe in the power of people when technology works for you. to dream. to create. to work. if you're going to do something. make it matter. [ male an

and grover norquist is its bartender. >> it's a weekend retreat. ays] ♪ ♪ [music plays] ♪ [music plays something you're born with. and inspires the things you choose to do. you do what you do... because it matters. at hp we don't just believe in the power of technology. we believe in the power of people when technology works for you. to dream. to create. to work. if you're going to do something. make it matter. ♪ [music plays] ♪ [music plays] >>> what could possibly be in those tax returns that makes mitt romney so reluctant to release them? coming up, the worst case scenario -- a felony. and later, chick-fil-a claims record sales on its appreciation day and bill o'reilly claims you should never pressure other people to boycott something unless, of course, you're bill o'reilly who has called for more boycotts over the years than he can remember. that's coming up. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 there are atm fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and the most dreaded fees of all, hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles sch

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grover cleveland who was one of the best presidents in american history that we had one of the last good democrat in the in eight hundred eighty seven in his speech is his annual address to the nation is his state of the union address said that we are seeing corporations rise up and put their iron on the necks of the citizens sometime i have to say it's always so disingenuous of the left when they try and paint libertarians as being so pro corporatist when it is really libertarians i go out and fight the fights against these corporations and the lobbying that they do and the and the corporate subsidies that they get all the time we are so against what is the opposite that if you're going to say we want to go for mulling over money that's right and then then what is the alternative somebody has to be providing things somebody has to be doing things it's not government right it's going to be one percent of the people in this country are doing things and the other fifty percent of the country are taking from them so you know there are people going in the free yeah absolutely. that's wh