please welcome grover norquist.nd applause) >> good to see you, steven. >> stephen: three years, something like that? >> exactly about three years, yeah. >> stephen: good to see you again. now, sir, for some of the people who may not know what americans for tax reform is, explain what the purpose of your organization is. >> first of all, we ask all candidates for office to sign a pledge not to raise taxes then we let voters know who's willing to make that commitment and who does or doesn't live by it. >> stephen: how long have you been doing that? >> 20 years. >> stephen: really. >> yup. >> stephen: and you've got it on record. is this the pledge right here? >> that's the pledge. >> stephen: so they take this pledge and you've got a record of them having taken the pledge and if they back out on this pledge? >> well.... >> stephen: it's hammer time! >> the american people, they're actual voters. the pledge is not to americans for tax reform, it's the the voters of their state and the american people. and people hold

>> tom coburn is completely right and grover norquist is completely wrong. if you're going to have a deal, there's going to have to be revenue as part of it. it doesn't mean you have to raise rates but it does mean you have to raise revenues by closing loopholes and the loopholes they're talking about is closing loopholes on corporate taxes for a plane and things like that. they're not raising rates, anything that's going to hurt growth. if you're going to do a deal, if you're going to cut the size of government-- which will be part of the deal-- you have to raise revenue. and grover is wrong on the economics. he's wrong factually. he said that only coburn reallyments to raise revenues. i've had several republican senators say to me, hey, i signed grover's pledge. but as part of this deal i know we need to raise rates and i'm going to go back on it. and it would be good for the country. it would be bad for grover's interest group, but it's absolutely-- coburn is absolutely right. >> what about the republican party? would it be bad for the republican party? >

(laughter) plus, my guest is the president of americans for tax reform, grover norquist.i'm going to claim his as a dependent. (laughter) the supreme court ruled it's legal to sell silent video games to kids. get ready for grand theft tetris. (laughter) this is "the colbert report." captioning sponsored by comedy central ( theme song playing ) ( applause ) (cheers and applause) >> stephen: thank you very much. (crowd chanting "stephen") (cheers and applause) >> stephen: thank you! thank you so much. i had no idea that you guys could read cue cards. (laughter) welcome to the "report," good to have you with us, and thank you all for watching our last show before the earth swallows new york and drags it to hell. (laughter) because on friday the state legislature legalized gay marriage. now, i am not surprised governor cuomo signed the bill. it's all part of the cuomo sexual agenda. (laughter) but a new law goes into effect july 24 and mayor bloomberg has already started a new economic campaign called "n.y.c. i do" to make the city more gay marriage friendly starting with som

he is told by grover norquist, who is, in fact, the enforcer of the republican party that this would be a tax increase. what happened to the republicans? in they ran like a so many black birds of a telephone wire. they scattered, day or terrified. this is the reality we are dealing with. it is not the question of courage on one side and cowardice on the other. it is a question of a coming together over a national problem and, as evan said and nina acknowledge, it does in all boats tax increases and serious -- and of both tax increases and serious -- >> the democrats have proposed neither. >> propose schmose. if either side is not willing to do something that is painful, there is not going to be a deal. in the short run, we are in the middle of a possible rerecession, and you don't want to do something that would fizzle tod -- that would facilitate that happening. >> yes, is gaddafi an evil man? certainly. but where were you, congress? why didn't the president come to the congress to justify the action was taken? >> republican congressman walter jones of north carolina, and tha -- a m

other areas of the world or thank you constitution you know for the americans for tax reform grover norquist they have the taxpayer protections place do you think you could have some version of that for politicians for firearms to make so that before anyone takes office directing the guns and violence of government that they've at least a garden once in their lifetime does president bother you that it least allegedly our commander in chief right now has never fired a weapon will pollutants until we. are fair enough well what do you think is the greatest threat to farms are separate coming out of the obama administration and probably not in the packet we're not watching. we're going on it as you were talking about one such groups who. really don't game and i learned we were taishan. and those extra districts were all in start and then they'd. come to it came right out of nazi germany and then control law and its presence in our street and to mention constitutional law. sixty but still and that's. in a way that's one of the even more constitutionally consulting. with fred rubin were so they're

this was an outright rejection of the grover-norquist approach to revenues. for some reason, even after that vote, leader mcconnell is trying to resurrects this approach. leader mcconnell has decided to walk out on the same limb as grover norquist. he is being adamant that we should figure out a way to achieve $4 trillion in debt reduction without including any revenues at all. it seems leader mcconnell is willing to tang the economy for the sake of protecting tax breaks for oil companies and corporate jets. in addition to being wrong on the substance, leader mcconnell proposal is pretty much a mathematical impossible. the gang of six looked at revenues. so much the final deal that the president will negotiate with speaker boehner and leader reed. now many in senator mcconnell's own part are abandonning his rigid stance against revenues. one leader said, i think the president's own fiscal commission pointed out that there is a lot of money used in tax expenditures. i think we ought to get them all out on the table and see which ones make sense. his wors, now

it gets back to alan simpson's remarks about grover norquist and aarp. we have to slow the growth of medicare and social security. the democrats don't want to talk about that by and large. we have to have taxes rise as a share of gdp when we double the number on social security and medicare. something that paul ryan or the republicans don't want to acknowledge. that will include higher taxes on people under $250,000 a year as we double the number of seniors in this country. something that the president and the white house won't acknowledge. so we are caught in the dualing charades with obviously the ability to make a solution, you know, stuck through all of this. >> thank you. >> sure. >> y'all think it will be increased, i think it will be temporarily or sometime and then they'll have a conversation about dealing with the real problem that we are all talking about here. but let me tell you about a little scenario on december 24th, 2009. and we were in a situation where we were asked to increase the debt limit. and the pressure on all republicans was to

lobbying world and he partnered with his old buddies from the college republicans jack abramoff grover norquist and some others to basically scheme and deal and really recruit some sorted clients to push a very sophisticated lobbying strategy where they're taking money from casinos and then at the same time tricking evangelicals to be against their own clients so they form kind of a racket where they're collecting money from both sides in one case they collected money from a sweat shop owner and a site and islands while collecting instructing evangelical voters to lobby against a bill that shut down the sweat shop owners factories where there's forced abortion forced prostitution so. there is a huge racket but a scandal which kind of blew the lid off all this expose the e-mails expose the documents how they shifted money around from corporate clients like microsoft and enron to create all these friend groups whether they were evangelical groups or anti-tax groups that they basically sold support to corporations it's have so incredible and not just front group but kind of astroturf groups or or

. >> so you would be willing to listen to that -- even though people like grover norquist said that thosere tax hikes? if you eliminate those, that's a tax hike. >> it is not a tax hike overall, if the total amount of money is revenue-neutral. so the question would be, would you spend that money to reduce the debt? let's wait and see what the kyl group recommends. >> how much longer does that group have? you said it has to be some time in advance of august 2 to get it through the senate, but the markets are watching what you're doing. is there some concern of getting right up to the end, like what happened with the 2011 budget talks? how long do you have? >> the sooner, the better. we can work backwards. i think there is an informal agreement that we need to have our action done by the first of august. to get it considered, we need to get it some time in july and that is about a month away. >> and you have not seen the progress yet toward actually getting to something? >> there may be a lot of progress. but they are not giving us a running commentary on what they are doing. otherwise, the

grover norquist was part of jack of' thing.'s i don't understand why everybody is getting so excited about the tea party. they are severe right-wing. it would be like someone in the democrats talking some crazy tea party thing and call it on the left. 1972 on june 17 is when it happened. caller: i just finished reading a book about nixon. host: that was the day of the break-in. june 17, 1972. caller: i'm sorry. i always celebrate june 16 because my husband came back from vietnam on that host: day thanks for the call. guest: freedomworks is a separate organization from grover norquist. in terms of whether or not the tea party is an extreme right- wing thing, i would invite you to come out to the tea party events in your community and discover that you will meet people from all walks of life who are bound on common-sense values that the government should not spend money it does not have and that it's getting too involved in people's lives. these are not right-wing ideas. we have been tough on republicans that have violated those p

he has decided to lock out on the same them as grover norquist. he is being fatima that we should find a way to achieve $4 billion in debt reduction without increasing any revenues at all. it seems that's senator mcconnell is willing to the tank the economy for tax breaks for oil companies and corporate jets. leader mcconnell's proposal is pretty much a mathematical impossibility. the bipartisan deficit reduction committee recognized the need to include revenues. the gang of six also included revenues the president will negotiate with speaker boehner em leader reid. many in senator mcconnell's own party are abandoning mcconnell's approach. one said that i think that the president's on fiscal commission said that there is a lot of money being used in tax expenditures. we should get them all on the table and see which ones makes sense. senator alexander, another member of the leadership. it is a the time to take a hard look that and more tax breaks. not one of us. another member of the republican leadership. yesterday, fox news reported that the sen

grover norquist was part of jack of' thing.'s i don't understand why everybody is getting so excited about the tea party. they are severe right-wing. it would be like someone in the democrats talking some crazy tea party thing and call it on the left. 1972 on june 17 is when it happened. caller: i just finished reading a book about nixon. host: that was the day of the break-in. june 17, 1972. caller: i'm sorry. i always celebrate june 16 because my husband came back from vietnam on that host: day thanks for the call. guest: freedomworks is a separate organization from grover norquist. in terms of whether or not the tea party is an extreme right- wing thing, i would invite you to come out to the tea party events in your community and discover that you will meet people from all walks of life who are bound on common-sense values that the government should not spend money it does not have and that it's getting too involved in people's lives. these are not right-wing ideas. we have been tough on republicans that have violated those p

it gets back to alan simpson's remarks about grover norquist and aarp. we have to slow the growth of medicare and social security. the democrats don't want to talk about that by and large. we have to have taxes rise as a share of gdp when we double the number on social security and medicare. something that paul ryan or the republicans don't want to acknowledge. that will include higher taxes on people under $250,000 a year as we double the number of seniors in this country. something that the president and the white house won't acknowledge. so we are caught in the dualing charades with obviously the ability to make a solution, you know, stuck through all of this. >> thank you. >> sure. >> y'all think it will be increased, i think it will be temporarily or sometime and then they'll have a conversation about dealing with the real problem that we are all talking about here. but let me tell you about a little scenario on december 24th, 2009. and we were in a situation where we were asked to increase the debt limit. and the pressure on all republicans was to

you have people like grover norquist who make americans sign this pledge say figure you change certainngs, that equates to a tax cut. republicans even saying, wait a minute, we're getting rid of subsidies. they equate any change as somehow being a tax increase. mike huckabee, when he ran for president in 2008, same thing, he raised fees, you'll raise taxes. this is a political fight. >> this is comprehensive tax reform. but comprehensive tax reform, fixing the system, getting rid of the loopholes, making fair and simple tax brackets for everyone and companies is so important. a lot of people say that's politically so impossible. but they've had health care reform. they're talking about social security and entitlement reform. ben bernanke has pushed for it and members of both parties have pushed for it. america overspends. we have a debt at more than $14 trillion and counting. will we spend more in the near term to avoid slipping back into a recession or worse? ken, do we need more stimulus in one form or another, either the fed or congress, to boost a slowing recovery? politics aside,

this was an outright rejection of the grover norquist approach to revenues. even after that vote, mitch mcconnell is tried to resurrect this approach. he decided to walk out on the same limb as a broker norquist. he is being added that we should figure out a way to achieve $4 trillion in debt reduction without including any revenue. it seems leader mcconnell is willing to take the economy for the sake of protecting tax breaks for oil companies and corporate jets. in addition to being unfair and wrong, leader mcconnell's proposal is a mathematical impossibility. the bipartisan commission recognized they needed to include revenues. the gang of six look at revenues. so must the final deal but the president will negotiate with speaker john boehner and harry reid. many in his own party are abandoning his rigid stance against any and all revenues. there is a lot of money being used in expenditures per we need to see which ones make sense. his words, not any of ours. senator alexander, another member of the leadership. it is a good time to take a hard look at unwarra

for all the nominees on the republican side, i want to know if each one of them have signed the grover norquistledged not to raise any taxes under no circumstances? guest: i would be surprised if any of the republicans would balk at that. it is a pretty low standard for republicans to agree that if you are going to spend new money, you find some place to take it from. that is what we do it home and our own finances. it is not that big of a request to ask of congress, especially among gopers. host: the next call is from long island. caller: i wonder what they would think of the chris christie ticket. i am in tim bishop's district. i do not like him because i think he is too liberal. guest: i think that would be a pretty heavy new york ticket. i am not sure how well that would play. i do think crisscrossed the is a creation of the pundits -- chris is something of the creation of the pundits. if you want a balanced budget, he is your guide. outside of that, i do not think he has much of an appeal. i am not too bullish on his candidacy. guest: he has a way of being very combative with his opponents

did you sign a promise to grover norquist not to raise taxes? how can you, if a family is in destitute need of money to pay off their bills, how can they pay off bills if they don't have money? you promised never to raise taxes on the rich. third, the $500 billion that was taken from medicare was not taken out of medicare because it has gone on to obamacare. it was taken out because the insurance companies were overcharging the government to handle the medicare program. that's how there was abuse. guest: the medicare cuts that are indicated, that is part of obamacare. 5 and $2 billion in cuts over the next 10 years. that is the way they work their magic to say somehow that obamacare would save government money. obamacare will cost 2.5 trillion dollars pair that's why we're working to repeal it so we can save that money. constituents of the first district of kansas and i believe washington needs to spend their money better and not to raise taxes. what helps grow the economy is certainty. and less regulation. we need to get this economy growing ag

are more concerned about the need to reduce the deficit than they are worried about what and grover norquistl say, we are going to have a difficult time reducing the deficit. as leader pelosi said, we believe we'll and gas companies that are getting big tax payer subsidies should contribute toward reducing the deficit. we thought there were positive signs in the senate the other day. when state limit some of the ethanol tax breaks for the purpose of deficit reduction. that's what we've been saying with its tax breaks for oil and gas companies or corporate jets. with its tax breaks for corporations that ship jobs overseas instead of shipping products, shipping and jobs overseas. those are things we should deal with here and now. there's no justification for that if you're serious about reducing the deficit. we have to see what the next steps are. but the president is absolutely committed to making sure number one, the economy gets fully charged again, and number two, that we tackle this deficit in a meaningful and responsible way. >> thank you very much. [inaudible conversations] -- the disti

rates, it all those other things we think of his tax increases, not necessarily subsidies of grover norquist. >> even now i'm not going to get into details of the talks, but let me just say we have proposed a menu of eliminating different kinds of special-interest tax breaks and dealing with tax exemptions for the very wealthy in this country. there have been a number of proposals and ideas come to some for a republican economist to recommend you can raise revenue without changing the rate by eliminating some of the deductions and tax preferences. there was actually very recently a report by the irs, indicating the number of people with lots of income. i'm talking about individuals and corporations. prefer stories about corporations with lots of income paid to this, but individuals who are high income, using very created sections to pay no income tax. so yes, we at the proposals on the table to say for folks at the very high-end, that we believe there's a responsible way to phase out some of those deductions along the lines recommended, by the way, by that simpson/bowles commission and other

grover norquist, why is he important? >> americans for tax reforms. no new taxes. most of the republican senators as well. when they talk about revenue enhancement, whether it's applying, for example, the killing of the ethanol tax to the deficit, he fights that. he has an enormous amount of power. jim bakker has come up with a plan because he doesn't think they're going to get a big deal before the end of the summer. he said why not extend the debt limit for six months until next year and build in spending benchmarks that you can get to and everyone can agree on that. the idea that we're going to get something really big unlikely. >> we spoke to a high-ranking member of the republican party who said this is done by the fourth of july because this benefits neither party to be dragged out. >> i think they'll get to something on debt limit. the idea of default is just -- it would be catastrophic quite honestly. how big it's going to be, that's the real question. white house would like to have something very large, all inclusi inclusive. we're playing presidential pol

conservative movement for over 20 years, the precedent and chairman of the americans for tax reform, grover norquistgolf, do they know? [laughter] one wonders. second thought, ralph reed has put together a powerful and important faith and freedom convention this weekend. [applause] i think we should also appreciate those who helped him do it. harry reid, nancy pelosi, and our nation's premier organizer, barack obama. he has organized a lot from the tea party, faith in freedom conference in convention. he has brought us together because what they have threatened to do to turn our country into a cross between france and greece when we would prefer to return to the united states of america. [applause] but these three have motivated our teams. there are two teams in american politics. our team was one thing from our government -- to be left alone. [applause] if you go around the table of who sits at our team's table when we were together -- taxpayers do not just what their taxes raised. home schoolers want their kids left alone. businessmen and women want to lead their businesses and professional lives

i've heard about these pledges to grover no norquist. i take a pledge to the flag of the united states, one nation, indivisible, under god, with liberty and justice -- justice, justice, justice -- for all. that's what we need to do. i take an oath, too. it is on the constitution, to protect and defend the people and the law that governs it. now, let's get real here and let's realize who our first pledge is to. so i say to my colleagues on both sides of the aisle: you go back to your republican history books. read what ronald reagan did in 1982. read what republican leadership did in 1982. i will do the same for democrats. when tip o'neill brought us to the table, i had to make tough votes. we draining strong medicine. but he know what? at the end of the day, we made our obligations. seniors got their checks. we got the social security trust fund in there, and out of that crisis became a stronger economy and a better america. we can do it. but let's realize who we take our pledge to, and mine will always be not to the democratic party but