and at the center of the action was grover norquist. norquist had created americans for tax reform, which he turned into the movement's nerve center. once a week, congressional staff, party activists, and rightwing think tankers held strategy sessions in his office. it was norquist who concocted a grand scheme to turn washington into a republican company town by making sure only republicans were hired as lobbyists and lobbyists contributed only to republicans. he dubbed it the k street project, after the lobbyists' main drag downtown. it paved the way for jack abramoff. >> what the republicans need, said norquist, is 50 jack abramoff's. then this becomes a different town. >> they were probably about as inseparable as two political people can get. jack had left washington. he didn't have the day-to-day contact with his networks. so if grover vouched for him, then abramoff was fine. >> abramoff had gone home to los angeles, but returned to washington to work for a prominent firm, which announced his hiring by touting the lobbyist's ties to

i'm talking about grover norquist, he's the author of "the taxpayer protection pledge," which seeks to oppose any net tax increases. it has been signed by 95% of republican congressmen and all but one of the original 2012 republican presidential candidates. grover norquist joins me now. >> good to be with you. >> let me ask you -- >> sure -- >> about the history of the last 20 or 30 years and ask you whether you feel some responsibility for this. here's how i see it. the republican party under ronald reagan, subsequently under gingrich when confronting george bush sr. has pushed aggressively for cutting taxes, no new taxes, many of the kinds of things you've argued for. but it has been unable for whatever reason under republican majorities, under democratic majorities, under divided or shared government to cut spending. so what we have had is the kind

we're back with grover norquist and robert reish. grover, i saw a figure yesterday that leapt out at me from the newspaper pages. home sales jumping to the highest level in more than two years in august, up 7.8%, coming at the time the stock market is being roaring up as well, and a small but perhaps significant drop in the unemployment benefits as well, by 3,000. all these are fairly encouraging indicators, albeit in an overall rather depressed economic situation. but the momentum appears to be behind barack obama at the moment. you must be worried, aren't you? >> no. if we looked at last -- this month's unemployment numbers, 300,000, 400,000 people left the work force. unemployment fell not because the number of people getting jobs, but because the number of people who quit looking. if barack obama's economy had recovered as strongly as reagan's did from the bottom of the recession, we would have ten million more americans at work. reagan took a different approach, spend less, not more, lower taxes, less regulation. obama did the op

grover norquist escaped scrutiny and is still riding high, threatening republican politicians with defeat at the polls if they dare vote to increase taxes. most republicans in congress have signed norquist's pledge just as joe kaufmann, running forongress from florida, is doing here, at a confenc sponsored, surprise, by ralph reed's faith and freedom coalition. >> this is a commitment to the people of florida that joe will not raise their taxes, tax reform is a good idea, tax changes that are a trojan horse for tax increases are not a good idea. so this is a pledge tax reform yes, tax increases no. >> ralph reed was a central figure in the jack abramoff scandal, according to the bipartisasene committee that investigated and detailed more than $5.3 million dollars abramoff had paid reed. but ralph reid was never charged. he had double-crossed his trusted followers and made them pawns in a power game. but it isn't necessarily a criminal offense to be a phony. a false prophet out to make a profit. the scandal did derail reed's hopes for public office in 2006. it broke while he was running in

grover norquist has a pledge. tly, that's scarier to the republicans than anything else. >> absolutely. because they won't break the pledge. and they've got to be able to tell grover and everyone else, we're not going to get out of this hole without raising some revenue. and that's a fact. and grover can't say it. this country needs real action and the time has come for us to stand up and take the hit. and my favorite chapter in the book-- and i wrote every word of this book myself-- ( laughter ). >> stephen: okay. >> and i titled all my chapters is "stand and defend. there are some things worth losing for." if you run for office and you don't believe there's something important enough that you're going to risk your job for, then don't run in the first place. ( cheers and applause ). >> stephen: what do you think president obama-- that is excellent advice. that is excellent advice. what do you think president obama should lose this election over? ( laughter ) >> well, if he loses, if he loses, maybe he'll lose on o

grover norquist has a pledge. tly, that's scarier to the republicans than anything else. >> absolutely. because they won't break the pledge. and they've got to be able to tell grover and everyone else, we're not going to get out of this hole without raising some revenue. and that's a fact. and grover can't say it. this country needs real action and the time has come for us to stand up and take the hit. and my favorite chapter in the book-- and i wrote every word of this book myself-- ( laughter ). >> stephen: okay. >> and i titled all my chapters is "stand and defend.

saw them and i said to them boys if you voted against this proposal because you're scared of grover norquist wandering the earth in this white robes saying that anybody who raises one penny of revenue a tax increase without a commensurate cut in spending will be all we don't know what the sinister result is before it can he do to you can't murder you can't burn down the house the only thing grover can do to you is defeat you for reelection and if that means more to you than your country and extremity one is looking for gutsy patriots you shouldn't even be in the congress do you think that is the case that these guys care more about their reelection than they care about the know the country well then they said here's the reason they did as i ran that it was a beautiful ramp you've recorded some of that just then i said i said well why did you then vote against it and they were very clear they said we feel that if you get rid of the employer deduction of employee health care premiums the employers are going to look around numb stunt thing and how to take this burden and they're just going to t

we'll see least two more you will see it i think has the strategy of using reconciliation that grover norquist laid out the financial times this week that the republicans are planning if the republican he's somebody that the democrats actually had i've had several democratic politicians one senator and two members of congress that i said you know is this are you guys are you all talking about doing this the way the grover norquist is talking about doing it and they're saying yes but is there any chance the democrats get a hold of this in the house and the senate or when the house or even hold the senate in citizens united i think that's the big i think it is that i think there's a reasonable chance i think a lot of people are saying you know what's with all this money are you saying this only because the united somehow only benefits republicans i'm saying that it really doesn't take a lot of money to flip a congressional election if you have you know five hundred thousand dollars and you're willing to spend it you could go in two weeks before the election and dump half a million dollars in the

as grover norquist and the irony of grover norquist's admonition is going to be very present in januaryr important here is they will be retro active to january 1st. everything that congress decides maybe it's january 20th, so there won't be any long-term fiscal damage. >> one of the things for the president to manage under this situation is reassuring the public that don't worry, we're going to fix this. and you won't be damaged tax-wise. but at the same time, allowing the sensation that they will be damaged to be the political motivation for the political class in washington to fix this thing. there's a little bit of a magic trick that they have to pull off here. >> well, it is unfortunate. because you know, when standard and poor's down graded us and now it looks like moody's might down grade us's well. what they often cite is our inability to make a budget deal and also the political, as i'm quoting here, the political brinkmanship that's involved. when we start talking about a budget and we use the credit waiting and the debt ceiling and this fiscal cliff as a bargaining chip and no

grover norquist joins me now. >> good to be with you. >> so let me ask you -- >> sure -- >> about theistory of the last 20 or 30 years and ask you that you feel some responsibility for this. here's how i see it. the republican party under ronald reagan, subsequently under gingrich when confronting george bush sr., has pushed aggressively for cutting taxes, no new taxes, many of the kinds of things you've argued for. but it has been unable for whatever reason under republican majorities, under democratic majorities, under divided or shared government to cut spending. so what we have had is the kind of perfect expression of what the american people seem to want, which is low taxes but lots of government services. and there's only one way to square that circle which is to borrow lots of money, which is what we've done for the last 30 years. so aren't you to blame for that? >> no, because the alternative is to tremendously raise taxes as high as spending has gone. if this is the left's analysis on how to fix the problem. no. here's -- >> but let me ask you, sir, you can characterize it as

grover norquist, it is always a a pleasure. thanks for joining us sir. >> thank you.g stuff but it is good to hear it. thank you. david: how are raising tax rates are going to create jobs? if they could answer that question, i'd be willing to go a little bit further, but nobody has answered that question. stuart: fascinating stuff. >>> blue states paying more than $4 a gallon at the pump. red states paying below $4. that's a general rule and it is true right now. why is that? we're going to ask the gas buddy next. >> is it not true that i personally have made you a fortune by appearing on this program regularly, have i not? >> i don't have the numbers in front of me, stuart, but i am wearing a new suit this morning. stuart: yeah, yeah, yeah. [ male announcer ] let's say you need to take care of legal matters. wouldn't it be nice if there was an easier, less-expensive option than using a traditional lawyer? well, legalzoom came up with a better way. we took the best of the old and combined it with modern technology. together you get quality services on your terms, with

this, you know, no new tax hikes. >> let's be clear about why grover norquist can go viciously aftercted officials. not because he's really good at has ser rating them verbally -- >> he is quite has ser rating. >> because he writes checks and bund the people who write checks. when we look at the historic trends around the quality of congress and around the esteem that people hold their elected officials in, it paints the picture we have to do public financing of elections. we're just going to have worse elected officials more and more beholden to the very wealthy, the most connected, most powerful, and it's really frustrating. >> but that's not true of the 63 people i helped get elected to congress in 2010. it's not true of the two governors in new jersey and virginia that i helped get elected. and that a lot of folks around the country rallied around because of their ideas about the role of government. so i take your point. i mean, in a broader scale. it goes to something i was saying in our last segment about where the electorate is moving and they are a little more active, more en

>> well, don't blame grover norquist. he believes that, his strong convictions on it, blame the people who signed up. you have to have compromise. in the book i describe in crucial moments where it's joe biden who comes in with the old approach. he's the -- he's called th mcconnell whisperer. the guy -- >> the horse whisperer. >> yeah. the guy who can deal with mitch mcconnell, the senate republican leader, who's a real hard ass as you know. but biden can sit down with him and say, one for you, one for me, we're going to cut a deal. >> what did mcconnell say? >> mcconnell said, as long as you don't raise taxes, i'll go along with it. >> but you can never sell that, as you point out, to pelosi wing of the party. the hardcore of 150, 180 democrats are not going to sign on to any deal that doesn't have some kind of balance with revenues and spending cuts. >> but if you dig into the -- this as i spent 18 months doing and talked to the president, talked to the republicans, talked to speaker boehner, they all feel that they can

this proves the president is, according to grover norquist and romney team needs to be getting out ryanto say this. he will be my guest tonight. the media rips him but does it just skip him? >>neil: before the president's speech on the middle east mess, there was this. i was certain and continue to be certain that there will be bumps in the road. >>neil: we heard the bumps in the road. did the rest of the media? looking at "washington post" front pages, it did not seem that way. my guest says that is because when it cops to this president, there is in such thing as a gaffe. where you are on the right or the left, i urge you to read and follow john because he has a way of stepping back. i'm not blowing out smoke. john, there is a double standard. i have always said it. i don't care if you are on the right or left. you have to wonder about a comment like that going by. if a republican had said it, it would have gotten a bit more scrutiny. >>guest: well, the president of the united states, in the aftermath of one of his arches being murdered and potentially dragged through the streets of b

> we have lots of people connected with harvard who are conservative, who've been to harvard, grover norquistwent to harvard. >> stephen: do they still go there. so you kicked him out. >> they succeeded there. they did very well. they went on to do good things in life. so we see harvard as a place for education for people who are conservative; people who are liberal; and everybody in between. >> stephen: is if for dumb people? is it for dumb people. >> it's never dumb to get an education. >> stephen: okay. (cheers and applause) >> stephen: so you are prejudiced against dumb people, good to know. okay. now young lady, you have written a book called "this republic of suffering: death and the american civil war" and it's the subject of inspiration for a new documentary, death and the civil war directed by ric burns. now i know there was death in the civil war, okay. but there was certainly death before the civil war. what is special, what's special about death and the civil war? >> the civil war brings to the american people a level of death that is unprecedented, that is unlike anything they an