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but i'm not talking about raised from where they are now but raised from my low proposal. >> grover norquistt and founder of americans for tax reform. mr. norquist, thanks so much for your time. >> sure. >> sunday the rich will have to pay more. monday says maybe not so much, they'll actually pay less. in your heart of hearts, do you believe that donald trump won't raise any taxes? >> yes. and he's actually been quite clear about it, even with some odd questions. his tax plan takes you 0, 10, 15, 25%. basically back to the rates that reagan left the country with, with bush and clinton then raised them and obama. and also to take a 15% tax on business activity. not just on corporations, but on self-employed people and people who have subchapter s corporations or pass-through companies. so business income at 15% instead of 35%. that makes us competitive worldwide. it's a fine, solid plan. he thinks if he goes and negotiates with the house and the senate, they may ask him to raise some of the -- reduce some of his tax cut or raise taxes where where they're cut. i don't think so. i think if he s

this is grover norquist. the choice between a fireman with modest preparation and a serial arsonist who married into the job, that's a nice one as well, they're all going to be off the board. >> i hope not. i really hope not. >> you don't think so? you don't think we're going to get a david brooks column? >> no, i do not. i'm holding out for david brooks, but i'm so interested in looking at who else -- i've been putting together my list. chris christie i guess fell first. >> yes. >> then we've got former governor of arizona january brewer -- >> she was very -- >> shake her finger in obama's face. >> down from the beginning basically. >> sarah palin, ann coulter, so the thought of david brooks or even george will joining this group of people i find very difficult to -- >> but they're going to. >> i don't think so. >> but the vast majority of the infrastructure of the modern conservative movement and republican party will be behind donald trump. >> i don't think so. >> true or false? >> true. >> no. >> what abo

grover norquist, president of americans for tax reform will join us next after this break. ."jen, go pro with crest pro-health advanced." advance to healthier gums... ...and stronger teeth from day one. using crest toothpaste and mouthwash makes my... ..hole mouth feel awesome. and my teeth are stronger too. crest-pro health advanced... ...is superior to colgate total... ...in these areas dentists check. this check up? so good. go pro with crest pro-health advced. mom's right...again! e.t. phone home. when you find something you love, you can never get enough of it. change the way you experience tv with xfinity x1. >>> back in september, donald trump then a candidate among the crowded republican field unveiled his huge tax plan and called for an overhaul of the tax code that would eliminate income taxes for millions of americans while lowering them for the highest income owners and businesses. during an interview with chuck todd on "meet the press" this weekend, trump opened the door for a potential increase for the wealthy. let's head out west where we find msnbc jake walkin

grover norquist, thank you so much. let us know when the mail gets there. >> absolutely. >> appreciate you being with us. >> shall do. >> you can just send it to us in an e-mail. that's fine. great to see you. >> okay. >> thank you. >> the cruz campaign a little back to the future, the cruz campaign says they could have stopped trump. how? a cruz/rubio unity ticket, but marco rubio refused, and now the cruz folks say that may be one reason that donald trump is still around. >> is that the back to the future that includes the hover board? >> yes. >> nice. donald trump says heart unity is nice but maybe not necessary. what does it mean days before the crucial face-to-face with the house speaker? will he offer a different message behind closed doors? with diabetes. en g steady is exciting. oh this is living baby! only glucerna has carbsteady, to help minimize blood sugar spikes. and try new glucerna hunger smart to help you feel full. (vo) on the trane test range, you learn what makes our heating and cooling systems so rel

grover norquist who has been for all the political stances he has that i do not have has been an incredibly distinct voice in the center right, conservative coalition against islamophobia and anti-muslim bigotry and paranoia and conspiracy theories promulgated by frank gaffney former adviser to ted cruz. the choice between a fireman with modest preparation and a serial -- they're all going to be off the board -- >> i hope not. >> and a serial arsonist whom married into the job. >> i'm holding out for david brooks but i'm so interested in looking at who else -- i've been putting together my list. chris christie i guess fell first. >> yes. >> then we've got former governor of arizona january brewer -- >> she was very -- >> shake her finger in obama's face. >> down from the beginning basically. >> sarah palin, ann coulter, david brooks or george will joining this group of people -- >> but they're going to. >> i don't think so. >> but the vast majority of the infrastructure of the modern conservative movement and republican party will be behind donald trump. >> i don't think so. >> true or fals

jo ling: grover norquist ails an interesting conversation. president of americans for tax reform. >> you got it. jo ling: donald trump is pushing another policy, saying he is willing to raise the minimum wage. >> i would like to leave it to the states because frankly irv state is different, every state has different costs of living and everything else. i would like to leave you $7.2s pretty tough. as far as i'm concerned, i could sigh something happening there. but, i would leave it to the states, because you know what? the states have to compete with each other. jo ling: steve forbes, chairman of forbes media is with me now? what do you think of this? trump's strong suit or people in exit polls people who work on may make minimum wage? >> he gave himself an out saying he will leave it to the states. when meets with paul ryan on thursday i think they can agree the federal government perhaps shouldn't raise the minimum wage. let each state do what they think is best for their own particular economy and people. he has given himself a huge out.

become president of the united states. >> now, rick, that was said by club for growth founder grover norquistof the 2012 election, and he started that speech talking about the ryan budget, saying we want the paul ryan budget that cuts entitlements, that cuts social security, that cuts benefits to welfare recipients and we don't care who we get, we just want a president to sign it. all the power is in the senate and the house. do republicans still believe that and do riepublicans think they could constrain donald trump in that way. >> mitch mcconnell theoretically is right, except that this congress has shown -- has not shown a willingness to push back on the executive branch. there are lots of things conservatives would have wanted this congress to do to push back against the executive branch and the courts, but they have never done it. they have never gone out to the country and started an argument to start to win these cases. they just go around, counting the votes and say we don't have the votes so the president gets everything he wants. so i have little faith this congress would push back

american dream house government often kills us as it does it keeps growing and it depresses me bed grover norquistling president for americans for tax reform has fought that tax simplification for 30 years and you have failed. is less simple than it ever was taxes are higher why are you so cheerful? >> the majority of the members of that task -- of the house we have not had a tax increase as long as the republicans controlled the house we stopped the bleeding as long as they can hold up one part of the government. obama what did trillions of higher taxes and republicans said no tax increase period we have to run a half trillion of spending restraint with 23 percent of gdp that is the federal government to stop the bleeding and it takes new leadership. john: politician say we have to get rid of this. >> is the one big victory the american people have against illicit and obamacare. but look to the states to see freedom flourish. home school was illegal and allstate's 30 years ago ted million are now being home school that is breaking into the monopoly. [applause] thirty years ago nowhere did a gover

across the board tax cut might actually raise taxes for the very rich just as start willing, grover norquist, who asks republican candidates to sign a no tax pledge, acknowledges the trump tax plan, which he supports, will indeed involve tax hikes. but he supports it anyway. >> so we're starting to hear some policy coming. >> some topsy-turvy policy. not what you would expect out of the republicans. >> right. all right. >>> well, decision 2016, speaking of, from rivals to partners. donald trump says that new jersey governor, chris christie, will lead the transition team in the billionaire businessman wins the presidential election. christie backed trump after dropping his own bid for the fwop presidential nomination. and according to the news release, christie's role would be to prepare trump's team, quote, to take over the white house and all that entails in the fall. christie's new role as part of trump's shift to a general election strategy. meanwhile, house speaker paul ryan said that if donald trump wants him to step down as a co chairman of the gop convention, he will respect his wishe

trump and taxes is grover norqui norquist. >> sure. >> what do you think? this is a conversation we started last week with mr. trump what he said on "meet the press" doubled down on some of those things yesterday. what do you think about what he's saying? is that okay, in your view? does it fit the standards of no new taxes? first, he made it clear in both interviews with chuck todd and steph no las that he wants his original plan which is a substantial tax cut across the board for all americans. what he added in this is the obvious comment when you're the president you're not the king. you have to get congress to pass a tax cut. he'll be dealing with kevin brady at the ways and means committee on the house side and orrin hatch and paul ryan and mitch mcconnell. if those four people plus trump sit in a room i'm not concerned that any taxes are going up at all. now what perhaps trump is talking about is some people benefit from a tremendous number of tax credits and so on. as we reduce taxes for everybody, some people organize

my lips no new taxes and then agreeing to raise some taxes has been an arted position back by grover norquist. we'll not raise taxes in any capacity. and donald trump saying to chuck todd on "meet the press." well, that was my opening negotiation. maybe we need to raise the taxes on the wealthy a little bit and businesses pay a little more. the middle class has to be protected. that's so far away from where paul ryan and a majority of the house gop conference stand on taxes that if there's -- that's the type of divide that would be equivalent of a democrat coming out and saying, the iraq war, george w. bush made a good call. that gives you an idea how big of a call that is. a few other ones to look at, paul ryan was very upset about donald trump's call to ban muslims from coming into the country. he said it was not conservatism. he was very upset with donald trump being slow to disavow connections to david duke and the kkk. i also think in terms of international policy, what's donald trump said about nato was something that did not fly very well in paul ryan's camp. if you look at the way the

i mean remember grover norquist, dare i bring that name up, and the pledge that many republicans in the would take. these are fundamental basic foundational issues of the republican party that reveal if ted cruz or some of his opponents were right, reveal donald trump to be, as ted cruz called him, the new york liberal. >> yeah, that's right. this is part of the tension in the republican party. it's not only that republicans fear that he would have electability problems in november, it's that he's jeopardizing what has been a conservative movement for the last half century. a lot of conservatives like paul ryan feel very strongly about these principles, about the need for entitlement reform, about taxes, about a muscular foreign policy and they see in donald trump a nominee who would shift the center of gravity in the republican party away from those ideas. >> philip, quickly, what do you think will happen thursday with this meeting? >> i would love to be a fly on the wall. i'm waiting for that invitation. you know, i think they might have a talk. they'll talk about their agenda, about

grover norquist, good to see you both. two issues we have to discuss it that is anthony savoie's op-ed. the case for trump will get to that of a congratulations. what trump just said about britain possibly leaving the e.u. coming up next, steven spielberg's fantasy film based on the row in dallas children's novel just released at the 2016th don't festival. a sneak peek next to a large catchup with internet can ruin a large payday. risks and rewards of life on the high seas with stars of wicked tuna will be coming up in a moment. this task tokyo-style ramen noodles. freshly made in the japanese tradition. when you cook with incredible ingredients...you make incredible meals. get your first two meals free at blueapron.com/cook. overwhelming and complicated. that's why at cancer treatment centers of america every patient gets their own care manager to coordinate every aspect of their care. the care manager is making sure everything is flowing well so the patient can continue to get their treatment. we are the link between the