the gsa said they did it and made a mistake. that should have been really the end of it. should have been a court subpoena where they said okay, we need this and we'll get the rest back to you. president obama and president clinton still have classified materials in their possessions in their homes that they haven't released to this day per the national archives. >> martha: so are you saying that these particular documents that were at mar-a-largo were all declassified in that december-january period of what year?

the gsa can provide more clarity on to us on how and what was moved and the gsa could have worked with the department of justice. that would have been my move as a national security operator. this is an extreme national security measure taken for what seems to be a wholly unnecessary national security approach. >> martha: all right. you're saying the gsa packed the boxes. they already admitted that they sent some of them there in error. so when in june when they went in with a subpoena and they collected the boxes, apparently then, according to one line of this story, somebody said no, there's more here and you need to come back for what is here because it shouldn't be here. do you think that is what happened? the secret service individual was involved in that as one of the story lines that we're pursuing. >> yeah, i don't know who that individual is. i think it was clear from president trump's statement that i believe he put out on truth social that he invited whoever was there in june or whatever date to look and have whatever they want and impair phrasing to see whatever they needed

the gsa just responded and said the gsa only transported things that the former president identified as things to be transported. so they're saying it's the fault of the former president and his team who told them what to take. >> right. of course, first of all, they're saying he requested it. secondly, nothing answers the fact that when they requested he return it, he didn't. >> over a period of 18 months. >> time and time again, he didn't even under subpoena. if there was a mistake, it all would have been given back it would seem by any normal analysis. evan, thank you very much. i want to go straight now to david loukman because he led the justice department's counterintelligence section in 2018 overseeing the investigations into hillary clinton's and general david petraeus' handling of classified records. you know of which you speak. you've investigated similar crimes about taking documents, classified information. but when you see this today, david, you see the department of justice is investigating possible violations of the espionage act by a former president, what went throug

let alone blaming it on the gsa or otherwise, the national archives.fficial has been involved in this case. and, also, visited mar-a-lago in june. i am wondering what collectively does that person's role and their presence as a part of the investigation tell you about this very investigation? >> well, i'm not going to go plutonium but i'll go with another equally strange concept which is counterintelligence. i'm glad you mentioned it. let's not forget not only is this not the walking distance between the oval office and the residence in the white house. this is mar-a-lago a very popular destination. lots of people around. lots of people to include two chinese nationals who not too long ago tried, during trump's presidency, tried to get in and trespass and get past the security to get into that location. i don't think that is a coincidence. i think that foreign governments that are interested in targeting the united states and trying to spy on us know this kind of thing happens at mar-a-lago whether conversations that are extremely sensitive held in non

it was gsa perhaps or it wasn't his fault or stuff just showed up. who knows how? where is a real serious explanation, innocent explanation that makes all of us, you know, in this country whether republican or democrat say, oh, okay. that makes perfect sense. now i understand why he would have taken that stuff to mar-a-lago. failing that i just don't understand it. and given trump's mishandling of classified previously, and thinking of rules that apply to him it is difficult for me to see an innocent narrative here. >> that is the important point. you wonder where the moment is during the course of the conversations. we believe you have information. oh, well come down and get everything. take it all. what are you talking about? i don't have anything here that is a problem. that would be in many ways the normal response to say if you think i have it come and look. take everything i want. i don't need it. it's not for me. we haven't seen that yet. because we talked about it a number of times, harry, plutonium is number 94. okay? there you go. >> thank you. >> there w

the claim is that the gsa put some wrong stuff in boxes by mistake. it's their fault.nd down his office, but it is the sole responsibility of the president and his staff as to deciding what actually goes in those boxes. it's not us that makes a decision about what to pack up and what not to. >> lastly, what about this claim by donald trump this all the white house documents he brought with him to mar-a-lago have been declassified? >> you've been talking about this earlier on the show. i'd say a few things. number one, trump and his team presented no evidence there was actually some sort of declassification order. i can tell you multiple former administration officials, including former national security adviser john bolton, said they never heard anything like that. number two as a previous guest discussed, it's unclear whether such a broad order like everything i take home would be declassified would be considered legitimate by the courts or other government authorities. i think there's another important point. that is the three statutes, the three laws mentioned in th

the gsa quickly responded.sions about what materials are moved rests entirely with the outgoing president and their supporting staff. so, in essence, trump didn't take documents. or they were planted. but if he did take the documents, they weren't classified. or if they were classified, he declassified them. or it's all a hoax. or -- you're going to love this one -- obama is to blame because he did the same thing. another lie thrown against the wall. or shot out of the fire hose of falsehoods. we can use a more apt russian metaphor. another lie disproven. the quote, donald trump's former national security adviser john bolton, when somebody begins to concoct lies -- and that is pleural -- lies like this, it shows a real level of desperation. let's bring in right now nbc news and msnbc legal analyst, andrew weisman. he's also the former general counsel of the fbi. served as lead prosecutor in the mueller special counsel office. thank you for being with us, andrew. you've seen one lie after another lie. this sound

we do have reporting on both the gsa idea that it was a mistake. federal agency, the gsa has come out and said, no, it wasn't a mistake. you were in charge of these documents and also that obama did this too. the national archives released a statement saying, we are knocking this down. he had those maintained correctly. on the classification issue, there are three things. as soon as trump left the presidency, he lost the power to declassify anything. so this idea, the other issue here is there's a formal process for declassification. the federal government usually maintains records about these things. you can't just think as president something is declassified and it is so. we saw that during the presidency when he wanted to declassify things, he would tweet it and then when tested in court, the answer was no, he wasn't declassifying something just because he said it was so. the other thing about this i think is really important to note is whether or not these records are classified at this time is pretty immaterial in this situation. because the c

. >> and then you had another trumper blaming on tv the gsa, the gsa quickly responded and said the responsibility about what materials are moved rests entirely with the outgoing president and his supporting staff. any questions about the contents of any items that were delivered, eg documents, are the responsibility of the former president and his supporting staff and should be directed to their office. so mika, one lie after another. it is almost as if they're running around in circle and have absolutely no alibis to these potential crimes. >> we'll see what happens and we'll follow the information as it is released and the details come out, but it does appear that these explanations, these multiple and conflicting explanations would make things worse for the former president if he indeed took classified documents that he was not supposed to have. >> and john bolton was quoted, here when somebody begins to concoct lies like these, it shows a real level of desperation. that is his former national security adviser who said this whole idea of he somehow has a new system for declassifying documents,

oh, so the stinks of gsa is also missing its nose and research as a still trying to work out why. the creators of the cartoon series asterix apparently found the nose mystery, so intriguing that they decided to have their character overlooks accidentally break it off with the subtle message. don't had your nose in the air ah, ah, ah, she will known as the opening of the mouth. this statue was granted a kind of vitality back to her. i nod latency, kite lucas on vandy when it snows was broken off, that the statue was deprived of its ability to breathe kite with her holden, india, and her. this would prevent the person that the statue symbolized from living in eternity. in desert tart hours, who had been taught growing up his own in day even cut. ah oh good. even though greek statues were not quite as spirited, many of them are also missing paces. and it's often the most important part, the head. it's evident that there has been a lot of modification, late, antique figures and imagery, a pagan gods, did not fit in with the rise of christianity. but heads were not the only things that

oh, so the stinks of gsa is also missing its nose and research as a still trying to work out why. the creators of the cartoon series asterix apparently found the nose mystery, so intriguing that they decided to have their character overlooks accidentally break it off with the subtle message. don't had your nose in the air. ah ah, ah jokes aside this was a silly yes master in egypt. where tampering with a statue was treated like a personal assault either and furnished out to her. every statue was a kind of substitute body for the owner. the end which was either placed in the temple or the 2 up redoing and through a ritual known as the opening of the mouth. this statue was granted a kind of vitality back to her. i nod laden's fe kite so beautiful on vandy. when it snows was broken, all that the statue was deprived of its ability to breathe tight with her home, india and her. this would prevent the person that the statue symbolized from living in eternity. in desert tart, ours, who had deemed taught good up his own. in day, even cut. ah, oh, do. even though greek statues were not qui

there are what we call the gsa, the general service administration people who would have coming and packedid not put these documents into a box. number two, not put these documents into a box. numbertwo, i can't not put these documents into a box. number two, i can't imagine these documents that have been sitting there for a year and a half, in any way, has donald trump gone down into the basement and decided to rifle through them and decide he has any sort of design and nefarious intent to use these documents. the point is, because of the classifications and a security risk to national security, because they would not be in the proper form, security, because they would not be in the properform, meaning procedurally they would not be safeguarded in what we would consider the proper protocol for those types of classifications, i can see that point. but again, what has been missed in this, the fbi, through their policy procedures, require less intrusive means if available. so a grand jury could haveissued available. so a grand jury could have issued a special subpoena, a directive by the gra

, so adm is gsa. the gsa umbrella, public works was a part of it. so prop b actually removed public works from the city administrator's office and you are playing the oversight role for the sanitation and trees department once it forms -- sanitation and streets once it forms october 1st so that's why the city administrator's office is involved. to help set you up for success -- [mic is off] you hit the ground run and approximately 1/3 of my -- my time is dedicated to establishing you and the public works commission. so, we had a dedicated oversight and accountability working group and that group was charged with developing recommendations for how to best comply with your mandate. i'm here today to share those recommendations with you and as secretary fuller mentioned, this is just an information item. there's no official action for you to take today and just know you're free to modify this approach as you go, of course in consultation with director short and secretary fuller. so, my presentation has f

this is any agency would take its property and transfer it to it the gsa general services administration they did and then a local group came up with the money to move this and the and the lighthouse it was saved. thanks to the work of the coast guard and the general services administration and local people coming together. it's a wonderful partnership a wonderful story of how that happened. now you refer to that as a advisory council on historic preservation success story. what was your role throughout this process? the there is a criteria of adverse effect in these regs and it's demolition by neglect. and so the coast guard by allowing nothing to happen. they can't do that. they can't allow a decision to allow to not do anything to protect the lighthouse is still a decision. so that was defined as an undertaking and they had a responsibility to take some action now, they could have tried to demolish it. but they didn't it was a landmark the local people run it to save it. and then this partnership came together, but they could not allow the lighthouse that they owned at that point to j

i don't think it will plunge is the as in covid or the gsa. think there is further weakness when you have a high cost of capital for corporate's and higher cost of interest for consumers, but will hit equity earnings eventually. q2 earnings have been decent but probably q3 earnings take a leg. powell himself said that at the press conference. we are looking at data points, the trough, i.e. the bottom, and for the fed to turn properly dovish. manus: you've still got hot jobs numbers. that was a pretty dramatic drop so maybe the edifice is beginning to crack. hyatt altogether because you had already -- tie it altogether because you had said we will see continue dollar strength. oliver: usually they go hand in hand but i think commodities have had such a strong run and if you have a slowdown in growth data you will see commodities cool off as well. we have seen that the last few weeks and expect them to continue to cool down. manus: off 15% from the highest, much further to go? oliver: further to go. don't pressure me to put an exact figure. [lau

and the material comes from the gsa which is the general service agent who hay has the transport, andis the one who told them. so there is nothing wrong with retrieving them. >> what is going on next? >> this is going to be part of a bigger investigation. you don't just go to get the materials and then say that is all. we know that there is espionage and other materials acts. so the fbi may say, we found the materials, and it does not drop to the level that we should charge anything. or maybe they work out a plea, if you plea guilty to a we won't charge you with b and c. or if it is so serious, we will charge you with x-y-z and if you are pleaing. or we will drop this for such and such sentence. that is all left to the judge. >>> and now, a look at the top stories we are following. including a message as a business owner, your bottom line is always top of mind. so start saving by switching to the mobile service designed for small business: comcast business mobile. flexible data plans mean you can get unlimited data or pay by the gig. all on the most reliable 5g network with no line ac

, so adm is gsa. the gsa umbrella, public works was a part of it. so prop b actually removed public works from the city administrator's office and you are playing the oversight role for the sanitation and trees department once it forms -- sanitation and streets once it forms october 1st so that's why the city administrator's office is involved. to help set you up for success -- [mic is off] you hit the ground run and approximately 1/3 of my -- my time is dedicated to establishing you and the public works commission. so, we had a dedicated oversight and accountability working group and that group was charged with developing recommendations for how to best comply with your mandate. i'm here today to share those recommendations with you and as secretary fuller mentioned, this is just an information item. there's no official action for you to take today and just know you're free to modify this approach as you go, of course in consultation with director short and secretary fuller. so, my presentation has f

whether it was gsa or some other entity in the government, the president did not pack these boxes individuallyd the fact that attorneys get his and introduced of the national archives and records administration were actively engaged in working out a deal here to have them turn back over, and then they do this, i don't understand it. i don't get the -- it is mind-boggling. >> tulsi: this whole thing has been playing out all of the details you think, okay, maybe we will learn more and maybe this will start to make more sense but it seems like especially with the information that has been released today, all we have are more questions. throughout your career in the fbi, you know, have you ever seen something so expensive in any scenario with any person of interest? to me, it was shocking to hear that they wanted to look at virtually any and every document to the trump presidency. >> james: when you gets a search warrant, it is very specific. it tells you what you can look for. if you are looking for a pistol that you believe was part of the crime, a homicide, you can't look in a small jewelry box

president terms materials, thos what was found there in florida may have been sent down to florida by the gsabut tonight the agency issued a statement which read in part the responsibility for making decisions about our move from the white house rests entirely with the outgoing presidents in their supporting staff. kk finger-pointing. but until we dig in and get mor details on what kind of warrants , we are kind of in the dark. great job, kevin. i was hewn just a few minutes. >> former president trump the fbi raid wasn't necessary in saying all they had to do was ask for the items being retreat retrieved from his estate. correspondence in palm beach florida with with the former president and his attorneys following the release of that warrant. >> good evening to you commission impaired the release of the search warrant has only emboldened the former president trump and his associates in saying that executing the searc warrants for documents here at morrow lago was. >> i am wondering now, why they didn't take those documents in june when they were there paraded than they not see them? it's ano

he blamed the gsa general services administration a small government agency that deals with the transitioned. saying that yes, they do move boxes but anything in the boxes that is on the president and support desk, lastly, we heard from trump spokesperson who mischaracterized what was taken and anderson, all of this is to say there is no credible response right now. there is no seriousness addressed of what we saw in that wa warrant and what the next steps would be. >> i want to get more from cnn political commentator charlie dent and van joins and margaret i want to play what republicans said about the fbi. >> i actually don't think they went in looking for documents that was probably their excuse -- >> a roos. >> do i know the boxes of material they took from mar-a-lago, how do we know they will be honest? >> we know they doctor evidence and plant evidence. >> sure. >> we know they hide skpefd lie and leak. >> they found an obama judge to leak and give a search warrant. they went in there looking for whatever they could find. >> this should scare the living daylights out of american citi

the gsa is the one that packed up his office and created these records and boxes in the first place. is nancy mace today. listen to this. >> this has never happened before. you sell mayor garland doing damage control yesterday afternoon. hillary clinton bathroom was never rated and she had a personal server, private server with classified information on it. his home was never rated and he stole classified information from the national archive. now his pant leg in and out of the building. the left does not hold their side accountable on any of these issues. >> you alluded this to some of those cases there. in the last 30 seconds or so. the president that it sets, you cannot undo this. president down the road will now have to watch it darkly what happened with their administration and the next administration, aren't they. >> don't forget about general petraeus as well. going to this issue. you have released forces that you will not totally appreciate what you have done. the american people will expect this tit for tat. obviously you can have a tear to -- two-tiered system. >> we will l

and they packed them up and gsa, the people who did actually do some transporting say they did not pack the boxes. had nothing to do with that phase of it. so, you know, there will be a lot of finger pointing going around. but i think the basic issue is, you know, he has a reputation for this kind of mishandling. when you read the affidavit, you're struck by the depth of research and investigation that's already been done. this is a pretty mature investigation, in my eyes. and i think that we're going to get answers sooner rather than later. i would hope this year. on where they're going to deal with this. because it is now so glaring that it affects all the handling currently of national security information. and this can be a teaching moment where somebody, like a donald trump who has very little respect for the rule of law is held accountable. i can't imagine him not being and with this blatant misbehavior and abuse of his powers. >> andrew, trump and his allies are trying to discredit the affidavit, we've seen it on social media, conservative social media, adding the redactions are

that is when he moved out of the white house and gsa packed the boxes and grab the documents that areow the subject of our discussion and the fbi search warrant. and i just think at the end of the day this is all going to amount to nothing for their not going to charge it donald trump because they have to overcome two large hurdles. first it requires knowledge. if you remember in comey went in front of the press in touch with hillary clinton case he went to the question of knowledge. in this case donald trump religious classified or you described it in the story, two months ago his lawyer certified there is no classified information in mar-a-lago. the second step is president trump believes he declassified this. with the knowledge and the declassification i cannot imagine a criminal case being based on this evidence. jon: there's argument over that apparently. the former president has said he would essentially declare it documents classified or say that he wanted to take them to his mar-a-lago estate. people like john bolton have affirmed he did that kind of thing. and as president he

it also really cuts the legs out from under any sort of defense of oh, well this is gsa's fault. they took this stuff by accident. i didn't know it was here. i didn't know we have the stuff at mar-a-lago. can't really say 2any of that nw when you have people who may come forward and say we talked to you about it and you replied you're keeping it because you think it's yours. >> renato, we also heard kaitlan talk about the hearing tomorrow, the judge who approved the search warrant holding a hearing to discuss requests to unseal the affidavit which lays out the probable cause argument. the doj has opposed its release. do you think that the uproar that we have heard will convince the judge to unseal more of it? >> i don't. in fact, the search warrant affidavits are almost never unsealed. i won't say unprecedented, but it's very, very rare for a search warrant affidavit to be unsealed in the middle of a criminal investigation. i don't think that will happen. i think that all those requests are really outside any sort of norm that we would see ordinarily in a criminal investigation s

these weren't just inadvertent document laying around the cheeseburger wrappers in the residence that gsa through in a box. i think that the fbi and doj will find a number of documents that are either related to trump's enemies, related to trump's business interest, related to things that trump had a very personal interest in reason to want to keep those. we knew some of these things are highly had a classified. along with strong regions. none of which are appropriate. donald trump would want them. i think you're approaching the point where would make sense and be necessary to charge him, if evidence reports it. >> listen, i do have to say will be hard for us and the people have these fantasies about donald trump in or jumpsuit, i don't think that it would be hard to put a former president in jail. i because of, quite frankly, but presidents represent. the information that they have. where would you put them? how would you do it? it is so unprecedented. look. whether not he goes to jail, whether he's charged, does not for me to decide. i just think would be a very high bar in my estimatio

. >> the gsa came out and said they mistakenly packed some boxes and moved them to mar-a-lago. that's not on the president. that's on the national archives to sort that material out. >> we have a list from the fbi but it's not conclusive as to whether or not this is classified material and whether it rises to the level of classified material. >> tom, it was a mistake or everyone brings their work home, or maybe they weren't classified after all. which of those are legitimate explanations? >> or all of the above, perhaps. i think each explanation has its challenges. the question of whether or not the president actually declassified these materials before he left the white house, color me skeptical. there is a process by which presidents can declassify materials, but it requires a process. the president can't just unilaterally say as he's walking up to his bedroom at night, i hereby declassify the documents in my hands. you have to follow a process. i'm not too confident that the trump white house followed this process. and i would add that it's not directly relevant to a lot of

these weren't just inadvertent documents laying around the cheeseburger wrappers in the residence that gsa threw in a box. i think that the fbi and doj will find a number of documents that either related to trump's enemies, related to trump's business interests, related to things that trump had a very personal interest and reason to want to keep those. and when you combine those things, something that is highly, highly classified along with strong reasons, none of which are appropriate, that donald trump would want them, i think that you are approaching the point where it would make sense and be necessary to charge him if the evidence supports it. >> donald trump's legal troubles don't end at the gates to mar-a-lago. a source says the federal grand jury investigating the january 6 events has subpoenaed former white house attorney eric herhir esh man, his testimony has been played frequently and he has talked about his efforts to push back against bogus fraud claims by trump and his allies. and prosecutors in georgia have told rudy giuliani that he is the focus of an investigation. giuliani

well, gsa clapped back at that and issued a statement that said "the responsibility for making decisions about what materials are moved rests entirely with the outgoing president and their supporting staff. . what can you add to that? >> it's such a good point. it indicates a larger challenge with the donald trump presidency. he often had shifting accounts for why things happened. over his presidency depending on which lawyer or aide he talked to last, he had a new explanation or account for why he did something that appeared to be breaking the law, breaking the standard protocols or just breaking the norms in one way or another. i think it's important to remember that not only did donald trump have a slash-dash way of handling information, but his entire white house was viewed with suspicion. remember jared kushner and ivanka trump were people who were viewed at likely unwise people to give top secret information to. there were concerns among the cia officials and career white house staff that jared kushner was so easily manipulated by foreign governments that they did not want him to h

animal admitted anybody do a that, that if i'm sorry, the end of and so she let them out of me the gsa lynch, the little so old jemila, nasa merciless or all the sr i live out, i'll be what, who, what we are saddled, misleading soft oh yeah, no. mm hm. did you come up, claudia? should any see, i guess i'm only up into 5 minutes. not yet my. really speak to them. you eda, it's the so that all these for us i have you learn with us in the city with our morale. yamaha, half of it must have told me to have to go would. but it's ashley. i hope this isn't amusement. this is any kind of living and an ad early comes to them, i was, i could get on with our dilute it out. i come on, i said when my move along with them set up the services which i have as as more reality as, as well kind of them or oxygen was that i don't know drums would get to deal with the rocks and mom was if i'd gimme a, b, c s with any of us. mom, mom. be so on. i feel over i o the water. habitable is it a little or if here when much higher benefit slow, but i sure have you and i live on home. i see us will danny ever let get

the gsa lint, the little sod jameel at nasa. merciless or old, the sr. layla. robbie: what, who, what we are saddled mentally, be exhaust. oh, yeah. let me come up with any see, i guess i'm really upset that i mean the not yet my really stuck with them. i like severe. it's the only for that no one had these heavy numbers in the city with our morale yard hasn't missed me. we'll have to go will. but is ashley, i hope this isn't i'm his mom. this is any kind of living. and an ad comes to them once i was i could get on without dilute it out. i come on, i said when my last name is jefferson, he was i have it as, as more reality assess, work on them or oxygen was i don't know, drums why get to deal with rocks and mom was sound, but i'd give me the b a y c, as with any of us, you mom, mom to a sort of be so on. i feel i . 7 0, the water habitable, is it the not a full or if here when much are benefit slope with us or have you and we, i live on the oh my see us will danny ever let get there? yes ronnie. luasa he walters with i almost i'm actually done with that. you've made your hobby and it

covered the cost of the galleries and nara now, it's national archives recognistration who is a part of gsa. they took care of all the building upgrades for example at nara, you know, they'll have new new conditions new requirements. and so nara had agreed at that time to do that, but that was also done with the help of senator mark hatfield at the time who was a tremendous champion of herbert hoover. and he was able to get an earmark attached to a bill that enabled the funding of about seven or eight million dollars. you take care of those building upgrad. and so the foundation took care of the rest and the funds are raised and the museum was renovated by 1992. so today we expect something similar to that. we have received quotes from brc imaginative arts of what the galleries would cost. so we know that piece of the pie. we shive hattery has been hired to determine what all the building upgrades would be and that is being priced up. we hope to get that price here sometime in the next month. and then that would be the starting point where we would go visit with with nara now we have the fa

i read a read that the gsa packed the boxes.rump was probably one of the most transparent presidents we had in a long time. always set for interviews, you knew what he thought at 12:00 a.m. when he would tweet and at 6:00 a.m. so he's often on the side of transparency. >> martha: have you asked him if he knows what's in there or if he went through them or if he kept something back when the lawyers said they had taken out everything that was classified? >> i haven't asked him that. i have been with him since then. he doesn't seem concerned about it. >> martha: the flip side is that his polls -- he's rising in the polls. his support in the republican party is rising. was this raid politically advantageous if he becomes a future candidate? >> it was not a good thing. it was not good for our country. the fbi and the doj must do their job to try to earn back the public trust. we had a very tough period where they spied on the campaign. i wrote about that in my book and the different special counsels and investigations. politicized th

it was 2012, the head of the general service administration, gsa, resigned, because they use governmentliterally. this is far more nefarious unbearable. >> miles is afraid of clowns -- >> i am thoughtful. >> let's not make it about miles. the part about glands, they make me happy, but i am a little frightened of them to. needless to say, you can lose your job for that, you ought to lose your job or overseeing the possible destruction of evidence. >> i have a key into something that elaine said something earlier, again, because if on your personal device, you sent official communication, then that official communication should be preserved. >> does that mean? >> for years and years and years, the emails, where were the knocking her for the emails, because they were on prime email apps. i had heard no one talk about this yet. i know some of these government officials were conducting official business via text messages because -- >> let me send this word document to more personally muscle i can worry about it are home. that becomes government record. >> does that mean your tire form become

have to put it in the context of at least one of the many defenses we have heard so far, this was gsa'sxes and they took the things to mar-a-lago. i think the it's mine comment undermines that defense. >> how much insight can they provide knowing that they're steering away from stuff that they -- attorney/client privilege, this issue has not been resolved yet, how much insight can they provide into how these documents were handled without going into some of that? >> well, that's going to be tough. obviously that will bump up against what we've seen as a series of claims of privilege and all kinds of different issues regarding the former president and his staffers. however, the revelation -- and i'm sure it was a revelation for the fbi agents who attended that meeting at mar-a-lago in june, that there was apparently surveillance coverage outside the room that would indicate who was having access to that room, how often people were going in there, what that traffic looked like, that became a very important point for them and that would explain why they subpoenaed that coverage -- >> let m

and the national archive were kicked administration, part of gsa, they took care of all the building upgrades. for example, norah we'll have new conditions, new requirements. so, they had agreed at that time to do that. but that was also done with the help of senator mark hatfield at the time, it was a tremendous champion of herbert hoover. he was able to get an air mark attached to a bill that enabled the funding of about seven or $8 million to take care of the building upgrades. so, the foundation took care of the rest and the funds were raised in the museum was renovated by 1982. so, today, we expect something similar to that. we have received quotes from b r c imaginative arts of what the galleries would cost. we have that piece of the pie. -- has been hired to determine with all the building upgrades would be. as being priced up, we hope to get that price here sometime in the next month. and then that would be the starting point where we would go visit with the national archives. we have the family and a couple members of the board of trustees who met with the national archivist

it's by law that's done by the gsa. does anybody think that when he got down to mar a lago, he sat in a room for weeks on end or months on end going through boxes and papers? no, of course not.th and he cannot be held vicariously culpable under the lawe for the actions of hit staff or auditors or their lawyers. but the important part, the point i made to the night of the raid is that the presidential records actre is the controlling statute. it givessi him a measure of control and custody and possession and access. and of course, these two constitutional scholars in today's "wall street journal" made the exact same point. merrick garland knew all of that. there's no enforcement provision under the records act. it's not a crime. so what did merrick garland do? he tossed in three general criminal statutes. well, wait a minute. under t law for more than 100 years in america, a specific statute like the records act takes precedent and supersedes any general statutes. and again, garland knew that, but he wantedd to gain acce

president trump did not packed these boxes, whether it was gsa or some other entity in the government. the president didn't pack these boxes individually. and the fact that attorneys, his and the attorneys from the national archives and records administration were actively engaged in working out a deal here to have them turn back over and then they do this. i don't understand it. i don't get the exigency to see it is mind boggling, this whole thing, you know, as it's been playing out all of the details ,you think, okay, well, maybe we'll learn more and maybe this will start to make more sense. but it seems like especially with the information that's been released today, all we have are more questions throughout your career in the fbi. you know, have you ever seen something so expansive in any scenario with any any person of interest? to me it was just shocking, again, to hear that they wanted to look at virtually any and every document through the trump presidency. well, when you get a search warrant, it's very specific, right? so it tells you what you can look for if you're looking f

before long, she was writing a letter, i'm sure recommended by david family, to the administrator of the gsa, really outlaying her concern about this and how important would be to preserve the character of the neighborhood, the 19th century facades of these buildings, and you know, by march, the administrator requested a meeting with the existing architects, and seen those architects bowed out of the project, and john carr markey was on board. and the whole thing changed. it's so, it is incredible to think about the influence that she had in being able to change that program that was so far along, and she had a sense of what could be done because she had seen it in other countries as well. in a letter to the administrator, she talks about the historic monuments and laws in france and how those could be applied to the united states. and so she didn't here in washington, and ultimately later in life she applied that influence to the saving of grand central station. so i think she was always -- about what she did, it's hard to describe any motivation to her, because she never talked about. it b

i'm sure recommended by david finley to to bernadette bhutan who was the administrator of the gsa and really laying out her concern about this and how important it would be to preserve the the character of the neighborhood to preserve the 19th century at least facades of these buildings are the first the first row and you know, it was in by march. the administrator bhutan had requested a meeting with the existing architects. soon those architects bowed out of the project and john carl warnicky was on board and the whole thing changed. so that's just it's incredible to to think about the influence that she had in being able to change that program. that was so far along and you know, she had a sense of what could be done because she had seen it in other countries as well, you know in her letter to the administrator. she talks about the the historic monuments. laws in france and how those could be applied to the united states. so, you know she did it here in washington ultimately later in life. she applied that influence to to the saving of grand central station in new york city. so i th

mar-a-lago, and surely he did, presidents don't pack up their belongings, performed by law, by the gsahers. it would be a nearly impossible case to bring against trump. stuart: do you think we will see the details on that affidavit or will they keep it sealed? i'm guessing they keep it sealed, what say you? >> because the government seems to be dedicated to the proposition of hiding and sealing evidence, i agree with you. i don't think we are going to see them. the raid of a former president of the united states by his political opponent's administration, americans deserve the full truth, greater transparency. i don't by for a minute that the claim that this would jeopardize national security or compromise our ongoing investigation, you can redact portions of the affidavit. i suspect he is hiding it because the fbi has a history of wrongdoing when it comes to seeking warrants. did they deceive and withhold vital information from the magistrate who signed off on it. i am pretty suspicious of that they did. stuart: you make a good case that it is dangerously problematic. thanks for being