i'm joined by jonathan lemire and gwenda blair.o incapable of having loyalty upward toward him that they at least wouldn't try to openly sabotage him, which is what this leak does? >> back at trump tower when he was a real estate developer from the whole time forward, his m.o. was to have people at each other's throats. >> his throat? >> each other's throats, to make them feel completely uncertain about their jobs, whether they were going to have them, to avoid any kind of horizontal loyalty and have them have to be loyal to him. but in the white house there's no loyalty at all because they have -- there's no long-term project there. >> so somebody sat down, he or she, sat down and tabulated every schedule all the way back to the them up -- i they -- i think they did type it up so they couldn't source it out and put that in an envelope and wasn't in an envelope and sent that to a reporter to embarrass this president. and they did. it is a good story. >> nearly 400 people have access to this information. a smaller group has a more p