. >> this has been going on since about 1969 with vice president spiro. the american people do not have a lot of confidence in the media and i think it is a good thing to have a discussion about it. >> but what does that do to democracy, jeffrey, to come out and continually call the media fake news? there is also the argument made by people that whenever the checks and balances, wherever he feels like they're threatening him, he attacks them. you saw what he said about the judiciary when it put a halt on his travel ban. you see the way he treats the media when we write stories or broadcast stories that he is not happy with. so what does it say to you? do you see that perspective or argument as well, jeffrey? >> sure. but he's a counterpuncher in terms of president trump himself but you have to say that for context, for example, this whole notion that the white house is in turmoil. i personally went back and took a look and found similar stories about the obama white house, the bush white house, the reagan white house and the media saying the same thing. m