i'd never met hackworth. c-span: in the back, you have a whole scenario of when the troops were sent, a chart. but in the time you were secretary of defense, seven years, 1961 to right at the beginning of 68, how many trips did you make to vietnam and back? >> guest: i'll just give you a figure off the top of my head. vietnam or honolulu? because we sometimes brought our vietnam personnel into honolulu at the cincpac headquarters to meet. i'd say vietman or honolulu, 30 times. c-span: you keep talking in your book about how you would come back and make one statement in front of the press and then you would have a private report. >> guest: i did, but only once or twice were they significantly different, and i mentioned one of them. c-span: when you do that, though, what was the thinking? >> guest: this is a good point. one of the things i've learned in my life is you can't compartmentalize your audience. when i was asked planeside in saigon or planeside in honolulu or planeside at andrews air base as i arrived