hagai el-ad and because that ishagai el-ad, executive director of b'tselem.see the pledge of you, you can go to democracynow.org and we will lead to the b'tselem report. we are spending the hour with noura erakat and gideon levy. one of your recent pieces is headlined "we can keep lying to ourselves on apartheid but israel has crossed the line." talk about the sensitivity of israel to this accusation, palestinians and many others around the world have leveled it for a long time. it is increasingly adopted, that term, by mainstream organizations like human rights watch -- and we just saw b'tselem. the significance of calling it this and h it change clubs unfortunately, it is very, very, very slow process. still a long way to go. very long way to go. because, amy, israel, as you know, is a society in total denial. i cannot recall one socie which lives in such a denial like the isrl jewish society and the last 20 years or so. nothing from the occupation gets into our daily lives. the occupation seems to be somewhere else, be the oceans, another continent if at a