and halberstam itself makes clear that the culpable conduct hatoe to quote halberstam, owing action. knowing action that sufficient aids torches -- tortios conduct. what it means in the legal and fiduciary to a. and that's not addressed here. >> but to justice alito's question how do we decide that as a matter of law? ts complaint? write it for me. th is not substantial because, >> where the electrical -- the allegedly culpable conduct is the failure to do more to prevent misuse of widely available serves offeredo the world at arms length, bjt to and enforced policy -- subject to enforced polics against content. it is not, as a matt o law e owing provision of substantial assistance to an act of international trosm, absent the specific knowledge of particular accounts, or post. that were used to plan, or commit or support the active international terrorism that injured the plaintiff. >> this is just one case. >> i don't think so. ruled thatheinth circuit has positive -- posited- the substitution of isis as an end to be -- as an entity, means at as a matter of course, every time somebo

tht is directed to use halberstam. is important for a number of questionserone being whether the assistance has to go to assisting the particular act on the plain the stam facts fail that standard. u y want to hold that in general aiding and abetting requires assisting to your act. -- particular acts. doe want to overrule halberstam when it gets here, in that halberstam is the standard and it says aiding and abetting and terise was done a number of the crimes, they would arcute a standard that would require to conclude that halberstam was wrongly decided. justice kagan, you frame this as a hypothetic. i wanted to respond that it is not. you asked what would happen in a case far afield from this in which a defendant said they ally weren't going to do much of anything at all and newha -- new that they were assisting terrorists. there is a factual dispute with the contention in the complaint is that atas really going on. thathipolicy was just window dressing. e complaint specifically alleges that unless someone came to on

halberstam test. in deciding whats bstantial asstance, by the way, that's not just a ftu question. in halberstam itself they first affirmedheactual findings and then apply the legal test in by application of the legal test found the factors and the cour was able to find liability. in a number of the oerases they had been dismissed because the allegations didn't make a legal standard. not so much a quti of fact. but in your poetical, the three most important factors, we think,n is case, they are on your question. --ear on your question. one of tho is, halberamuts it as was the person present at the coison of the offense. i think that's a proxy or a window into the question of how proximate was the person, was the defendant's actions to the ulmate anti-echo -- ulma ac? here we think it's t proximate in the proximate cause sense organ the factual the way the internet wksense and in your example it's more proximate. possibly factually or in a legal sense. the use of the pager would have, depeinon the othe

halberstam. george herring. bernard faull, arguably one of our great writers, still on this conflict. so it's striking to me. dan chester, there are a number of these early books that i think right now if you picked them up, you would find you learned a great deal about this conflict. it should also be said, maybe my second point is that, of course, the scholarship that's come out over the last couple of decades i've contributed a bit of this to this myself, i think has been incredibly important. it's given us a whole new a whole new understanding in some respects of the of the struggle. some of it based, obviously, on vietnamese sources, sources in france that i've made use of and others have made use of an incredible outpouring of documentary materials in this country. and and it's it's it's been so important. and yet there's irony here which i think that this new scholarship has really changed the terms of the debate in this country. i'm conscious of the fact that we're still debating the core questions. why

and one of them was a translator for, frankie and me, when we went back to vietnam and halberstam and others named control. and in in danang and mr. cohn told us this wonderful story. he early in the early days, we would take these groups of veterans and they would say, okay, we just don't want to go to the sun valley. we want to go to hill for 52, which is where we during that battle, this or this month or and so these guys were getting a little bit older these veterans and they were getting little more out of shape and so contra and and the other guys would sometimes sort of cheat a little bit they'd take them to the coast sun valley. but they'd drive to where there was a sort of a slightly less arduous hill. they'd say, okay, this is your hill, and you can go up this hill. this is where you fought. well, several years later, when the veterans are even more out of shape and and this is a vietnam humidity heat issue and they to vietnam, except time they had gypsies. and so mr. cong would these people up to his hill where they he said they fought and they'd say, no, not where we fough

he worked with tadeusz halberstam's term the best and the brightest. he seemed to be all things the golden boy of the eastern established. and he was a friend of john foster. he was a friend of secrets areas of state. he was a friend of the roosevelts in fact. so by any stretch the imagination, he seemed to fit into the mold of the eastern establishment and to hold its verities and virtues to the to the highest under so we know that one of the reasons that alger hiss able to convince so many people was because he had so many supporters in the east and the people who should have known but who didn't. and alger hiss was a great chameleon in the end. he's very unlike very just from the great soviet spies of the cambridge spies of the british establishment, men like guy burgess, kim philby, donald mcclane, john cairncross, who were also major soviet spies at the same period, they were wracked with guilt. they drank themselves into early graves. they instead of standing trial, they escaped the iron curtain and went to moscow where they literally died. alcoh

and one of them was a translator for, frankie and me, when we went back to vietnam and halberstam and others named control. and in in danang and mr. cohn told us this wonderful story. he early in the early days, we would take these groups of veterans and they would say, okay, we just don't want to go to the sun valley. we want to go to hill for 52, which is where we during that battle, this or this month or and so these guys were getting a little bit older these veterans and they were getting little more out of shape and so contra and and the other guys would sometimes sort of cheat a little bit they'd take them to the coast sun valley. but they'd drive to where there was a sort of a slightly less arduous hill. they'd say, okay, this is your hill, and you can go up this hill. this is where you fought. well, several years later, when the veterans are even more out of shape and and this is a vietnam humidity heat issue and they to vietnam, except time they had gypsies. and so mr. cong would these people up to his hill where they he said they fought and they'd say, no, not where we fough

halberstam. george herring. bernard faull, arguably one of our great writers, still on this conflict. so it's striking to me. dan chester, there are a number of these early books that i think right now if you picked them up, you would find you learned a great deal about this conflict. it should also be said, maybe my second point is that, of course, the scholarship that's come out over the last couple of decades i've contributed a bit of this to this myself, i think has been incredibly important. it's given us a whole new a whole new understanding in some respects of the of the struggle. some of it based, obviously, on vietnamese sources, sources in france that i've made use of and others have made use of an incredible outpouring of documentary materials in this country. and and it's it's it's been so important. and yet there's irony here which i think that this new scholarship has really changed the terms of the debate in this country. i'm conscious of the fact that we're still debating the core questions. why