and i, i think that that handicaps us in terms of the way we think about that engagement. >> given where we are now as the troops pull out, i would assume that there could be an interest, particularly in iraq, in terms of, of doing some activities which would help the government, umm, and the existing society strengthens itself, democratize itself, umm, deal with internal conflict and the like. >> will the diplomatic process or the political process in iraq and afghanistan-- let's say, let's talk about iraq for a moment-- as it moves into the phase of peace building, change the rhetoric? can the military, uh, withdraw from that kind of, of rhetoric that it uses all the time? >> well, i think the rhetoric is important and it does give uh, some focus to what it is you are attempting to achieve. also the environment itself is important if you're in an anti-insurgency, anti-terrorist environment, you're using military action to suppress certain parts of society or to eliminate certain threats. uh, normally, the ideal situation for peace building is that you have peace and you have something