almost everybody that was in favor of ending slavery, to include -- well, you know, later on harriette beatrice stowe, even abraham lincoln up until '63, they all thought that once you ended slavery you had to send the freed african-americans somewhere else. back to africa, latin america, caribbean. this generation, the founders, were extraordinarily imaginative in so many ways. they could imagine a larger public, they could imagine separation of church and state, they could imagine political parties. they could not imagine a bi-racial society. >> well, the new york man u missions society argues about that. >> really? >> they were not a colonization group. one of the things they did is they set up schools for black children in new york which were like i think in the 1830s or '40s they were folded into the new york public school system. they had many projects. when they started off they weren't abolitionists at all. one thing they did is they helped people who were being seized, you know, on the grounds that you're an escaped slave, which was a fraudulent enterprise. they just grabbed people and say,