policy, and he basically did want a soviet-style economy -- >> host: so hid harry -- so did harry dexter white as it turns out from recent research. at the time, harry dexter white came across as a new dealer, but an economist who was in the keynesian tradition. in fact, he was a counterpart to keynes in creation of post-world war ii global financial architecture. it's incredible, it's mind-boggling. >> guest: but i think the important thing to remember is there are hundreds of agents. >> host: yeah. >> guest: not all of them are famous. there are some who still have not been identified, but we know for a fact there was something around 500 agents who have so far been identified by the archives after the fall of the soviet union. >> host: and what would you say was a key intercept that facilitated this identification of, as you say, 500 -- >> guest: well, there are several archives. there's the -- >> host: well, talk about venona, what was that? >> guest: it was an archive set up, it was intercepted cabling going between the russian, the soviet embassies and consulates back to russia, back to

a tux and years they were up on harry dexter white and alger hiss. but they were identified before. >> threw fbi and other investigations going on the day here is the thing that a certain point* along the way of in the years to follow there was knowledge of the tremendous buying going on well with our government will having a quiet civil war over whether there is any soviet penetration. this period of the '50s is what most people think back to as there were many other senators and congressmen tried to get a handle on what happens in the roosevelt years? >> host: roosevelt launched his career doing that. >> but the government was composite because who benefits from keeping this information secret? >> are you talking about the electric -- elected officials? it had to be part of the networks. right? >> but there are planes there is knowledge and understanding and also with harry truman when we get up to the alger hiss hearing ed whitaker chambers was spilling the beans on alger hiss spying and the country was divided over whether alger hiss could be a s

and the special monetary fund on the other side was mind-boggling when i read the book about harry dexter white isman who created the architecture became almost the first imf president and their kin at nominated president not harry dexter white who presented a spectacle but in fact, when they researched the archives was a staunch marxist economist. >> guest: he was more than that but instrumental in war he was a deputy to the secretary of the treasury. in imports and deputy not particularly skillful treasury secretary economist and relied heavily on which accounted for more than it should have and it would manipulate mercifully and this is something that cannot in the '90s was the soviets at that time to be aggressive in the areas of the globe did not want to be attacked by japan. >> host: expected to end a been a war with germany. >> they did not want to worry about a war on the eastern plains so what happened was the kgb agent came to washington and had lunch with harry dexter white across the street from the treasury and gave him language to insert into the cable flow going to the united sta

intolerable throws this plan on the on the floor and yells this is yet another toy to which harry dexter white responds we will try to produce something which your highness understand. well i've found it surprising that the us solved britain as such a thing. during the great and white conference britain had suffered major blowback staring the war and just a few months earlier of a near bankruptcy in the us supplied them with billions of dollars and bailouts lend lease act why why i have brought in such a threat to do that remarkable harry dexter white from the time that he arrives at the us treasury in one nine hundred thirty four is convinced that britain is the natural geo political rival of the united states actually in a memo in his arc from one thousand thirty six years before bretton woods in which he writes the more sterling entries there are in the world the more powerful position england will be around the conference table when a conference of benchley takes place so he was a term and to best the british at bretton woods and bretton woods was really part of a larger geo political agen

intolerable throws this plan on the on the floor and yells this is yet another tolman to which harry dexter white responds we will try to produce something which your highness understand. well i've found it surprising that the us solved britain as such a threat during the great and white conference and had suffered major blow back staring the war and just a few months earlier of a near bankruptcy in the us supplied them with billions of dollars in bailouts during that lend lease act why why have brought in such a fright to do that and remarkable what harry dexter white from the time that he arrived at the us treasury in one nine hundred thirty four is convinced that britain is the natural geo political rival of the united states actually fundamental into our lives from one thousand thirty six eight years before bretton woods in which he writes the more sterling countries there are in the world the more powerful position england will be around the conference table when a conference of benchley takes place so he was determined to pass the british up woods and bretton woods was really part of a larg

intolerable throws this plan on the on the floor and yells this is yet another toy to which harry dexter white responds we will try to produce something which your highness understand. well i've found it surprising that the us solved britain as such a threat during the great and white conference and had suffered major blow back staring the war and just a few months earlier of a near bankruptcy the us supplied them with billions of dollars in bailouts during lend-lease fact why why have brought in such a threat to that remarkable harry dexter white from the time that he arrives at the us treasury in one nine hundred thirty four is convinced that britain is the natural geo political rival of the united states actually fundamental in his arc from one thousand thirty six years before bretton woods in which he writes the more sterling countries there are in the world the more powerful position england will be around the conference table when a conference of benchley takes place so he's. and to best the british woods and bretton woods was really part of a larger geo political agenda that f.d.r.'s tr

and remarkable what harry dexter white from the time that he arrived at the us treasury in one nine hundred thirty four is convinced that britain is the natural geo political rival of the united states actually fundamental in his arc from one thousand nine hundred sixty eight years before bretton woods in which he writes the more sterling countries there are in the world the more powerful position england will be around the conference table when a conference of benchley takes place so he was determined to pass the british woods and bretton woods was really part of a larger geo political agenda that f.d.r.'s treasury whop which was to eliminate britain as an economic and political rival in the post-war world and if that happened yes in fact the british agreed to a sort of faustine bargain with the united states the united states provided limited financial assistance to britain in the form of lend lease aid in a post-war transitional loan in return for which the british agreed to three things to eliminate imperial trade preference this is the arrangement by which britain gave itself privilege

harry dexter white had the most in american history and this became the means of expanding the soviet union because they're became half a million dodge and chevy trucks. >> host: the cobra fighter planes and jeeves -- jeeps. >> guest: he was interviewed by life magazine and he said he doesn't know how the army could have gotten in without the dodge trucks and studebaker trucks. rolling through eastern europe. >> it is a matter of the quarter banking. put yourself in his shoes. what is going on here. hitler who came to dominate all of europe -- we haven't talked about the pacific war. >> host: roosevelt was dead set on destroying hitler before the war with japan even started. for roosevelt, the central gravity on the russian front so he is going and doing a -- let me put one thing out there what he needed to do to believe hitler what happened to the policy is that is what the american people believed that in the history as we know it. however, if dispatching hitler were the main event that would have happened earlier that i found in my research what became the american goal is the stip

intolerable throws this plan on the on the floor and yells this is yet another tell me to which harry dexter white responds we will try to produce something which your highness can understand. well i've got a surprise. i think that the us solved britain as such a threat during the great and white conference and had suffered major blowback staring the war and just a few months earlier of a near bankruptcy in the us supplied them with billions of dollars and bailouts lend lease act why why i have brought in such a threat to do that remarkable what harry dexter white from the time that he arrives at the us treasury in one nine hundred thirty four is convinced that britain is the natural geo political rival of the united states actually fundamental in his ark from one thousand thirty six eight years before bretton woods in which he writes the more sterling countries there are in the world the more powerful position england will be around the conference table when a conference of benchley takes place so he was determined to pass the british woods and bretton woods was really part of a larger geo politi