returning with me, back with me are harry lipman and charles coleman skrr.and get jurors to think presidential records act means he can have them, taint the jury pool. that seems to be the only explanation that makes sense to me. he cannot be dim enough to believe that because you're president for four years everything shown to you at that time belongs to you. that's like saying i stayed in this airbnb for four days therefore i can clean the place out and take it home with me. or i have a job and when i leave my job, i get to take everything in my office that was the work product of my profession and take it home. no one believes that. but do you think this is a successful attempt to poison the jury pool? >> joy, i'll put it this way. if i have $100 ipmy bank account and go to the bank and take $100 out of their safe without telling anyone or talking to anyone and walk out, it doesn't matter if can believe that money is mine. i'm going to jail for burglary because i have stolen $100. it's really that simple. what donald trump believes and what he talks about

. >> harry lipman, it's never uninteresting to me to put things together that happen at the same time't know the cause and effect. we don't know if doj's annihilation of the plea agreement that had been worked, we don't know cause and effect. we know they happened at the same time, full stop. we know from everything you've tweeted and others that the charge the doj has brought today against hunter biden isn't one they really seem to historically like to take to trial. why do you think this happened today? >> yeah, and that is the key point. i know you cited mike's reporting that it's sporadic. as best i can tell, it's nonexistent in a case like hunter biden. yes, there have been a lot of twists and turns, but only two here. i think we -- it may be hard to know, but it's not hard to suspect. two things happened. the plea unravelled, but for reasons having nothing to do with hunter biden. really just awkward lawyering by the doj. there was the outcry that you detailed. that's all we know. david weiss was appointed special counsel in a way that made it even clearer that garland was going

joining me to talk about this, harry lipman. great to see you. thanks for joining us.it has not been that great for any of the defendants in this fulton county case. >> i think it is a bad sign for him and the others. they're all somewhat factually different but this is certainly a test run. for meadows to suffer this slam-dunk is not a good sign. i think that the trial judge had the benefit of making a really strong factual record because meadows took such an unusual risk in testifying for that long. so that gamble didn't pay off. at least at the district court level. it does give the judge a really solid factual basis upon which to make the ruling. >> is it possible if donald trump tries to, if he tries to get his case moved over to federal court, is it possible he'll take the stand like mark meadows did? what will that be like? >> axiom number one. donald trump cannot testify, never will testify. he will try to have moo it to federal court, probably not until the last day which will be september 30th. his case is much weaker. meadows had the strongest claim being ch

attorney harry lipman.you, what's happening today including the argument that jeffrey clark's lawyers are prague to get this move approved? >> there's a couple interesting things happening. first, in this case, the defense's burden of prove to prove why they believe it should be moved to federal court and the kefts isn't here. he waived his appearance. his attorney doing all the work. he has to prove two things. one is not in question. one he was a federal officer at the time. he worked for the doj and the environmental section as we heard and later on in the civil division. two, that he was working under the color of law. that's legalese for doing the job that he was supposed to be doing at the time. and that he was assigned to be doing. the defense says he was doing that. that's what they say. the prosecution says he was not because of the inexperience he had as an environmental attorney in the civil division not specifically related to the election. we also heard from another former trump administration