back at the table, lisa rubin and harry litman. that post, again, on the line. not a direct violation but it's about a witness which gets into territory. i want to read this part -- do i have this? here it is. this is the sidebar between judge merchan and todd blanche at some point. you guys don't hear this? we are getting this later. i understand your client is upset, judge merchan, but he is cursing [ laughter ] audibly and he is shaking his head visually and that's contemptuous. the potential to intimidate the witness and jury can see that. i will talk to him. i'm speaking at the bench because i do not want to embarrass him. mr. blanche, i will talk to him. i won't tolerate that. mr. blanche, i will talk to him. that's pretty wild behavior. >> i have seen this movie before. it's my fourth trump trial in 12 months and have seen it before. aside at the e. jean carroll trial and the -- trial. i guess it went better for him for not having been there not just because he did not testify because he does stuff like this. at the second e.g. carroll trial he banged his

. >> lisa rubin and harry litman watched it all happen and they join me tonight. and with one candidate in the courtroom and one on the campaign trail, how are the polls this type? jen psaki is here with more on that, when "all in" starts right now. good evening from new york, i am chris hayes. i think it is fair today was the biggest day of donald trump's criminal trial so far. this morning the star witness for the prosecution took the stand. stormy daniels, also known as stephanie clifford, the woman at the center of this case, took the stand today. daniels is the former adult film actress who prosecute -- who prosecutors say had a sexual encounter with donald trump back in 2006 and was the recipient of a hush money payment in the weeks leading up to the 2016 election to hide that fact from the american public. there is no disputing that the details are salacious. some viewers may find them uncomfortable to hear, but the encounter between donald trump and stormy daniels is of significant relevance as this man once again competes to be the president of the united

. >> let's bring in harry litman.hile we saw lisa describe what she saw from the overflow room, you were inside the courtroom, and so much of what you saw and experienced are things being processed potentially even now by members of the jury and so we want you to take us inside that room. what you saw, what you felt and any interaction between the president and stormy daniels, stormy daniels and that jury. >> i can speak to the first, there wasn't any but there was a lot to see especially with the jury. we're talking about a very, very colorful witness who detailed kinds of events and just, you know, efforts and ways of being that i think for the jury was -- were fairly foreign and spoke very quickly, nervously and told a lot of jokes and not all of them landed. as lisa said, merchan was quick to sustain objections and clearly thought there was too much detail being given to the jury. i watched the jury very carefully, and i thought in particular there were three or four who were maybe not with her and others who were

. >>> joining us now is christy greenburg, who's been in the overflow room, and harry litman, who hasin the courtroom. harry, any observations you think are relevant in terms of in the courtroom? and i think what you're expecting, because lanny davis has just suggested he think we'll see a very controlled michael cohen, a en -- even on cross-examination. >> that's exactly what we have seen. what i've seen is the quick clip and the sort of un-dynamic presentation by the prosecution. if cohen is smart, he won't do what lanny just said about responding but, but, but? explain ato the cross, which i think we'll see. he'll -- that's what redirect is for. he need to stay calm every second if he can. he's also given new revelations, which i think is the second headline, but i don't want to steal christy's thunder here. >> go ahead, christy. >> yeah, there's lunch where we hear about the fact that donald trump told michael cohen, he got a delay in making these payments because if i become president, well, it's irrelevant and if i'm not president, i really don't care. the question will become t

legal correspondent lisa rubin, former deputy -- harry litman, great to have you here. three different things happen today. stormy daniels cross and redirect. the sort of hearing about the mistrial which was interesting. the last witness who got sworn in and will be continuing tomorrow. let's start with stormy daniels. we had around the stand when i talk to you on tuesday. cross today, how did it go? >> for whom is the question? i think it went really well for the prosecution. i do. the reason is because while there are small differences in stormy daniels story, this was an event that happened in 2006. it's 2024. the fact that susan necheles went on, i counted, first seven pages about whether stormy daniels was consistent are not about saying whether or not they had dinner, is beside the point. they were nibbling at the margins. at the same time, making her more sympathetic by attacking her for things that were either socially regressive or the same sort of things their own client does. for example, as you said, selling himself. stormy daniels was selling merchandise. d

joining us now is former us attorney deputy assistant attorney general, harry litman, who has been in the courtroom during the trial. what was the dynamic life between the judge and the defense team in those tanno 15 minutes. yeah. accord. it was not like a standard legal argument. it wasn't low key and academic. it bristled and there was a sort of dynamism to it that you don't normally have, which by the way, he has not in previous messages to the defense table. >> i mean, when i was there last week, he he said to blanche that was the de after trump i had claimed that he wasn't allowed to testify in a very calm way. >> he said, let me just maybe your client is missing forum. let me remind him. it's his total equal, right. he was bending over backwards to become, this is a different tenor i think that's right. it's not as if he was haranguing him, but it was definitely very sort of pitch tie in he attack the professionalism of nicholls. he said, i can't trust blanche, but it was if he let them both speak their piece and then it was almost as if you'd already crafted an opinion that he

former prosecutor harry litman and correspondent lisa rubin. let's start where i ended on keith davidson, who is an important witness. tell us who davidson is and what he is going through today. >> is the lawyer for stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, so prosecutors were taking him through the settlement payments of both women, which as you know operated differently. the first one, ami handled. the second one, david pecker already testified he told dylan howard, do not get involved with this. i do not want any affiliation with a star. it endangers our distribution deal with walmart and i am not a bank. nevertheless, howard did get involved and he got involved by involving keith davidson who had a former relationship with stormy daniels manager, gina rodriguez, herself described as an infamous story broker. this was the underbelly of the world that david pecker kind of took us through. >> this is below the inquirer. like that is too sketchy for us, the national enquirer. you need to run this as an off book operation, because us, the national enqu

back with me at the table, lisa rubin and harry litman.t you were talking about at the end of the day there was a hearing. the jury leaves and the judge dressed down trump's lawyers, who were petitioning for a mistrial based on stormy daniels' testimony. >> first they gave their whole spiel and the d.a. basically said he's not telling the truth, but it was as if the judge memorized the order and had it in his head. he told todd blanche -- >> trump's lawyer. >> sorry, well, there were two different lawyers. he said i can't trust you based on the record. we are not changing the gag order. when it came to the mistrial he eviscerated their technique. he said you did not object and then on your cross he went over this at length. the big thing is, you are the one who put this in play, because you started out accusing her of lying in your opening. you did not talk about the records. i think the way he said these messy details, they are what those to motive and you put his motive at issue by denying the whole thing. so, trump, who really has force

also with us, former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman and former federal prosecutor kristy were both in the courthouse, in the courtroom at times this week. so shaq, set the stage for us today. what is trump planning there? >> reporter: hi there, ana. look, donald trump gets the return to the place where he's said he wanted to be for the past couple of weeks as he's been sitting many that new york city courtroom deal with that trial. a couple hundred of them lining up behind me, not just here in wisconsin, but in michigan. of course two key battleground states that he lost in 2020 after winning in 2016. and to that point, the messaging here and these visits are more than about those who will be inside those rall inside those events who will be listening to him directly. it will be about those swing voters, those who have changed their positions and preferences over time. it is a county still dominated by conservative, since donald trump won in 2016 you've seen it shift ever so slightly towards democrats. i want you to listen to what some folks told me about how much that tr

harry litman. >> thanks so much. >> all right. and new today, growing fears in the middle east, israel launching fresh attacks against gaza as the us now, warren's a ground invasion of rafah could result insignificant civilian casualties. israel defense forces launching a blistering campaign against hamas overnight targeting northern and central gaza, as well as rafah in an effort to prevent militants from regrouping the hamas-controlled ministry of health says more than 35,000 palestinians have been killed since the war began while the un says at least 300,000 have evacuated rafah ahead of israel's ground operations all of this just days after president biden warned israel against a rafah invasion, promising to pause certain weapons transfers if the idf pushes forward. today, top white house officials explained why they believe going into rafah could have disastrous consequences. >> going into two rafah, even to deal with these remaining battalions especially in the absence of a plan for civilians, risks doing terrible harm to ci

joining us now is former deputy assistant attorney general and host of "talking feds podcast" harry litman analyst kristy greenberg. harry, i want to start with you because you were inside the courtroom watching all of this, and from your experience, just tell us what you think was a mistake to put her on the stand in the first place? was the cross examination too aggressive? you know, just right? and how she held up? >> yes. in brief, not a mistake, and she held up well. so look, today necheles landed a couple jabs, but she need add knockout blow she needs because of her client to persuade the jury that the entire thing is concocted, and she didn't get close to that, and she made some of the same mistakes of tone and over aggression that she made, i thought, on tuesday. she advanced, she took chances on advancing certain views, and stormy daniels who was basically in control, it's the last thing you want to happen on cross, on cross you're the voice. you're the one the jury's looking at, and stormy continually said no or pushed back. the jury might have been left with some thought that st

nine about the prospect of taking the stand and later form deputy assistant attorney general, harry litman joins us. his thoughts from this time, the court today hi it's christina again, i'm here to tell you about an all new special offer from my friends at jacuzzi bathroom model that you don't want to miss? >> you already know jacuzzi has been making water-filled great for more than 65 years. and now they're bringing you this special tv offer. were waving all installation costs and postponing all payments for up to one year to cruzy bathroom model has a design you'll love at a price you can afford and best of all, they can install it. and as little as one day with no stress no meds. are you ready to see your new shower here it is it's fabulous. >> taking a shower had gone from being a joy to being a burden. i was afraid i would fall i called and just one day i had a shower. i could feel safe in no matter your situation, jacuzzi bathroom model has a solution for you from a safer, easy entry shower with features like grab bars and accustomed seat to keep you feeling comfortable and independ

attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman is back with us, david kelly is herejoining us contributor editor for new york magazine andrew rice. i need to ask you about costello. i understand -- how could they put him up and have the last thing the jury hear -- i mean, you prosecute you had organized crime, they are the mobiest pieces of black and white paper that the jury has seen about trump's conduct. >> i think it was a real backfire for the defense lawyers. i thought it create this had milieu of slime and that he was there for no reason but to be an enforcer for the boss and try to co opt him. i think that just -- it really rang out through the emails and through the testimony. so you have to wonder, you know, who is driving this train. is it the lawyers or is it the client? >> do you have any questions? >> no. >> it's the client. i mean, can i just read to you -- i mean, the way it ends, to me a piece of information that the jury otherwise would not have known. the prosecutor asks do you have animosity against michael cohen? costello says no. she says, last

attorney harry litman.reme court justices thurgood marshall and anthony kennedy. what i want to say i can't say even from my potty mouth broadcast here, but what is this? let's take the supreme court and the institution whose faith among republicans has plunged further and faster tathan any institution in public life. let's pip that for a second. who talks about their spouse like that? >> nicolle, we know who wears the flags in that family that's for sure because it clearly ain't him. i think the brother needs to check how he's putting on his swags every morning. look, it just -- that is some of the lamest sort of throwing the spouse under the bus -- i fold her to take it down but he refused to. oh, you guys didn't have conversation about this. you didn't impress upon her the symbolism of the upside down flag irrespective of the current connotation of it in the context of january 6th. before that, it is a symbol that the country's in distress. no one flies the flag upside down especially if they get into an

still with me at the table, harry litman and lisa rubin. harry, i cut you off before we went to break. do you remember what it was? >> no. but, you buried the lede right now. what preceded this was judge merchan saying the money is not effective. he has now raised the hammer and said next time i'm coming down. >> lisa, you meet up with the $1000 fine mac is statutorily by law. judge, you were with us and you say people took a lot of notice of and i heard back from folks who talked about the point you made that you can say, look, there will be jail time and i'm not gonna tell you how much and where until after the trial so you try to get this disincentive affect. what do you think of the ruling by judge merchan today? >> the judgment ski ruling was within his discretion. he found nine violations. there's a bit of a dilemma he has created, and it's that he has another contempt hearing coming up on thursday. that's four more alleged violations. if the judge finds that all of those were, in fact, violations of his gag order, i think most we thin

stuart: listen to harry litman, he says the trump conviction is because for celebration. >> we have been holding our breath as a country for a long time waiting for the cavalry to arrive in the form of rule of law and it did arrive today and it is a majestic day, donald trump is a different person now. is a convict, he's not innocent until presumed guilty, he is guilty. he will get bail, it's true but he is on a whole different status in society in the legal system, in the rule of law, that's not only fitting but are kind of -- miracle is too strong a word but a day for celebration. stuart: a miracle. lauren: liz: it harkens back to the vietnam excuse to destroy the village to save it. this is, i am sure that the conversation he has at cocktail parties and friends but that's the disconnection with the average american going on with the lives of americans, blue cities having parties over this and the rest of the country thinking why can't i put groceries in the refrigerator, why can't i give my child some chicken. why can't i have enough gas to get to work, why do i have to work two jobs?

prosecutor and former fdny deputy chief christie greenburg, in the overflow room in the courthouse and harry litman in the courtroom. harry, first to you, your summation of the summation. did you think given he had a tough, you know, challenge there, that the defense did as good a job as he expected? >> short answer is no, andrea. i thought for one as a matter of style it kind of lacked pop. the only time he went into sort of high -- he tried too hard to say some of cohen's slips on the stand were lies. and on the merits, he really chewed off a big, big bite in trying to say these papers are not false. that was his main submission for the first 45 minutes. and then also essentially to say stormy was lying and making it up completely. i think he took too much and i thought the jury was polite, but not hanging on his every word. so, i thought it was fairly meandering and fairly ineffective in substance. >> christie, let me ask you about what happened after he finished summation, which was that there were concerns about him suggesting that former president of the united states could go to prison, so w

harry litman have been inside the courtroom and came out with what's to come including whether trump will actually take the stand. >>> republicans gone wild. from flocking to trump's trial to hurling insults at committee meetings congressional chaos reaches a whole new level as congresswoman marjorie taylor green triggers this epic klatt back from congresswoman jasmine crockett. >> someone on this committee starts talking about somebody's bleach blonde budget body that would not be engaging in personalities. >> what now? >> i'm jonathan capehart, this is a bleach blonde bad built but body addition of the saturday show. >>> in the coming weeks the supreme court will hand down rulings into pivotal cases related to the violent january 6th insurrection including whether donald trump has sweeping immunity from criminal prosecution. decisions that will have enormous implications for american democracy. in a new revelation is reigniting grave concerns if not fear about the impartiality of the high court's conservative super majority. on thursday, the new york times reported that neighbors o

attorney and former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman's here.t donny deutsch is here. i want to dive back into the testimony but i have to start with jail. trump, who didn't go to a memorial for united states veterans of world war i i think and ii in france because it was raining and his hair would get messed up, for a million reasons, petty, shallow and primal, trump does not want to go to jail. >> yeah. despite his references to nelson mandela we will not see him doing a 24-hour necklaceon nelson mandela. i remember interviewing the wolf of wall street and he told me what it's literally going through the process, what it's like and what they examine and how they do things. donald trump -- and we were talking off camera, and you brought up the point in the last segment that he won't eat food when he goes on foreign territory. you have to use the bathroom. his hair. his makeup. >> his skin. >> like he will be pulled apart. he doesn't have the mettle to do it. so anybody that's out there saying oh, it's a great moment for him, this is not a mug s

harry litman, it is so nice to have you. thank you so much for joining us. guys stick around. >>> still to come. even as the supreme court weighs the scope of presidential immunity, in a case brought by donald trump himself, the disgraced ex president is now future with future prosecution of biden. so i guess there could be a carve out or something. michael luteig will join us to make sense of that. and then on going unrest on college campuses across the country. a live report and the mayor of new york city will be our guest coming up. where -- where protesters were arrested. >>> and later. the asix week abortion ban is in effect in arizona and it might be in a effort to rein in health care with a state monitored pregnancy platform. all of those stories and more when "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. you've got xfinity wifi at home. take it on the go with xfinity mobile. customers now get exclusive access to wifi speed up to a gig in millions of locations. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free. that's like gett

criminal defense attorney and former assistant defense attorney in the manhattan d.a.s office and harry litman is here, former deputy assistant attorney general. you were in the courtroom. the spillover room or the courtroom? >> the courtroom. >> the main event. there you go. you got to see the jury. it took an hour to read the jury instructions the first time. what were you thinking when the jury came back and asked to hear some of them again? what did you glean from that? >> first of all it is not at all unusual. questions come in and you think is there a verdict and it will be happening, you know, over the next few days. it is very interesting what you raised. they asked, apparently, we will find out tomorrow night if they really want this, but for the entire 55 pages, takes over an hour to read. he would have to read again if they say we want the entire thing. why would they want all of the instructions including some boring and generic ones? i am not sure. that actually puzzled me. the other request i think is more meaningful. >> how much can we read into these questions? people love to m

harry litman served as attorney general at the department of justice. as people that worked in that office and someone in the trial every day, do you agree with that assessment that as a process, as a sort of test of american equal justice under law, that independent of the outcome, it is a success? >> i agree. forgetting that it is donald trump, former president of the united states, this trial was orderly. donald trump, inside the courtroom, behaved himself relatively. the jurors came on time. there were no hiccups throughout the trial and most trials are like that. some there are hiccups. you are right, he is not above the law. no one should be above the law and most defendants, in many ways, he has received special treatment. he has four indictments and he is free, so that is one thing. but it is good for people to see, whatever the verdict is. that is how the system works and you have to respect that. >> it is an important and i would say beautiful point, really. he was brought to heel during this trial. he had to do as others do and it was a full

we have a full table with yasmin, plus former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman and the host of the podcast, tony, and board number political analyst mark. before i knew michael:, -- michael cohen, i played some of his testimony from 29. people should not underestimate his ability to pull it in and do something that he is committed to doing. he is committed to accountability for president donald trump. the other part of the story, the price he has paid, bill barr for women prison for writing his book. he sees himself as one of the first two weaponize the department of justice against and all for telling the truth about president donald trump's role. >> he is not worried that they will come after him again, as many others are. let me use a word you do not hear a lot and that is the word confident. how many has he been through since he has been in the white house? dozens and dozens. this was his personal fixer for 10 years and he kept that job. he is very good at what he does. even in that cnn interview, he was very clever. it was very trumpian. he is very good at what he

harry litman, a former deputy assistant attorney general, said, and i quote harry, my basic assessment cross is not crisp, clean in or quick enough. >> the managing editor of lawfare said, most of it boring and seemingly aimless. >> and even this piece from fox use cross-examination throws michael cohen off balance, but belabor the point that he hates trump the labors and buoying, boring, not glowing reviews. and it may be not trump lawyers fault, not blanche's followed. i memean, trump, of course, is the client and in this case, not a client who takes direction. a client who gives direction, a client who calls the shots. his legal team has managed to stay on trump's good side by doing what trump wants them do. tap, tap on the shoulder hand the note in an immediate reaction from blanche or beauvais or necklace so will that change tomorrow remember that blanche here is a well-regarded former federal prosecutor. >> he has a very good reputation. he's taken on people accused of murder, and he does know what he's doing in a courtroom. and as we're closing in on this crucial day of testimon

it only takes one, though, as you know, duncan, to trigger a mistrial, and harry litman who has beenho is there today. one juror that people are worried about, and i share that worry, can't identify him or her per judge's orders, but seems less engaged and slightly irritable. i know there's this perception that you can read jurors to some extent. and i'm not going to lie, based on what harry said and the article that he was quoted in, i was keeping my eye out, and there was, i think, one juror to my eye who maybe was looking around a little more than anybody else and seemed -- but i wouldn't call him irritable, less engaged. he just was absorbing things differently. is it a fool's errand to try to -- and we all do it, guilty, watch a jury and think, oh, that's the one. >> i think it's human nature. it's natural. it's interesting how much we're watching the jury right now. for the last several weeks, don't forget, the jury has been watching the lawyers. they have been watching mr. trump, and as much as we're intently talking about this, they may be back there saying did you see that t

that, we are joined tonight by cnn's kara scannell and former deputy assistant attorney general, harry litman, both of whom were in court today, also a cnn legal analyst, karen friedman, agnifilo, and cnn political commentator errol louis, who is covered donald trump for decades here on local new york news, when note here. >> a colleague of karen agnifilo is law firm, represents michael cohen, though karen herself does not work on the case. she has no contact with cohen and no restrictions on what she can say about it on that note, kara scannell, talk about the courtroom today. what was it like in there? over the highlights? >> so today was a dry day compared with yesterday with stormy daniels on the witness stand, but it was setting up michael cohen's testimony. we saw excuse me, phone records that came into evidence today, and these are call logs between michael cohen and a number of these key players. most importantly, with donald trump, also david pecker, keith davidson, all of the players here's that are around the catch and deal. and as we know from this, did not come out in court today

and harry litman, former deputy assistant attorney general. yasmin, i want to go right to the courthouse. let's start with what we heard from the jurors in this new note today. >> reporter: so we needed clarification on what they wanted out of jury instructions, right? we didn't know if they wanted the entirety of the jury instructions read back to them after yesterday's note or they wanted a portion. it turns out they wanted a portion. they essentially wanted what the jury considers as evidence in the lead up to count one. that's really the entirety of all of the instructions, if you remember the judge in his initial instructions did not go through every count, and that was in order to save time because all of the instructions together took an hour and 15 minutes. so that's exactly what he's doing now. the lead up to count one, what the jury can consider as evidence. it's pages 6 through 35 or so. that is what judge juan merchan is reading to the jurors right now. i have the entirety of the jury instructions in my hand right now, 55 pages wor

attorney, former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman's here. rsation we're having. you can take me back to this morning. the floor is yours. >> all right. let me start here with the really marked contrast in tone. it seems to me, nicolle, that if someone who didn't speak english had just wandered in there and been in there all day they would have had no hesitation in saying that steinglass's presentation is way more effective. it's much more methodical. it's comprehensive. it's paced. it's well rehearsed. it dovetails with all the evidence whereas blanche had as he has at trial a kind of scattershot meandering not clear where he was sort of approach. let me keep going with the steinglass presentation in the afternoon. a few things he did particularly well. one, he gave an account of the righteousness of the case. he very effectively took about five minutes in the middle to explain this isn't about sex with a porn star, this doesn't matter, this actually could have changed the election. we don't know that. and this is why it matters. the american

. >> to the degree, harry litman, they'll by asked to make relative judgments, yeah, there was a one question on one day about one call that made me wonder if michael cohen was telling the truth, but, you know, the defense's only person that came up and spoke for the defendant's innocence, if you will, that was objective, it's not even clear to me that it was. he's much worse than anything they want about michael cohen on cross. i mean, how much do juries take into consideration the rely activity in terms of the credibility over the other? >> i think it's the key question, and the short answer is quite a bit as you say, we trooped up every court day. it's not how the jury experienced it. they experienced it more as a narrative sweep. it's the way jurors are supposed to experience. they make overall judgments, who is telling the truth, and who isn't. i think in part because he was farley unperturbed, it wasn't a seismic moment for them when cohen was a little bit knocked off his feet, whereas costello, that's like the principal coming into the classroom in second grade. that is really

joining us is lisa rubin, harry litman and joyce vance. that is a promise that blanche made to the jury that he has not only failed to deliver on, but the prosecution brought out evidence to prove that this payment was a reimbursement to michael cohen. there's handwritten notes showing the wire transfer to stormy daniels. there's trump's signed 2017 public financial disclosure report that says that michael cohen was reimbursed. and trump's own tweet from may of 2018. will the prosecution cover this on redirect or wait until closing to tie it all together? >> they have a very good choice here. blanche is a prosecutor by background. you are taught as a prosecutor never, never, never over promise in the opening. this is tailor made for an absolute bludgeoning of this very point. will they bring it home? it's already clear to the jury really that it's been a reimbursement. new york is a little different. in new york, the prosecution will go last and the defense first. the evidence seemed so clear from the start that's what this was. i think it

. >> harry litman said during stormy daniels' testimony he saw zoors look like they were really strucky it. >> yeah. now, if molly's saying what harry said in our coverage, is that hearsay? >> sorry. >> i'll accept it for the truth of the matter. >> molly, that's just a really bad legal joke. >> it's really bad. >> but i'm not sorry. if there was a day to tell it, right, this is a big legal day. we really appreciate both of you walking us through it, especially with the eyewitness accounts and following every hour of it. kristy sticks around, molly, we'll see you late they are week, i hope. at least that's the plan. we also have maya wily on the full circle moment cohen is facing. and later a mant d.a. veteran on the prosecution's strategy and what will be a vigorous cross. it's the next hour i'm anchoring as well. we have psaki. >> more than two weeks before the presidential election, michael cohen wired $130,000 to stormy daniels lawyer. that payment was to hide damaging information from the voting public. the scheme violated new york election law. the scheme violated new york electi

lucky for us, a full table, former attorney and deputy assistant attorney general harry litman is backxecutive editor special correspondent for the holywood reporter lockland cartwright is back. tell me about -- let's start with the cross. that's what was happening until about 35 minutes ago. tell me how this sort of bombed. >> it did bomb. blanche kind of came in hot and he kind of had this full frontal attack about some things that michael cohen had put up on tiktok. and you were like this is the aggressive machine gun approach that he would want want. and then we were left with thismy ran dering type of dance that suggests that michael cohen had gone rogue. not to comment in the media and put anything out there. it was almost like they were trying to set that up as a premise for going rogue with donald trump. and then there was almost like this other sort of side conversation -- >> i didn't even track that. they were trying to establish he didn't do what he was told to do. >> that was my read on it. michael cohen went rogue because the d.a. told him he would have followed instructio

correspondent i can't say -- yasmin vossoughian is here, harry litman, homestead of "on brand" donniehere. before i knew michael cohen, you were the person i asked about michael cohen. i now know michael cohen, as well. i've played some testimony from 2019. people shouldn't underestimate his ability to sort of pull it in and do something that he is committed to doing. he is committed to accountability for donald trump. the other part of the story of the price he's paid, bill barr sought to throw him back in prison for writing his book, telling his story. he sees himself as sorts of one of the first people trump weaponized his department of justice against, and all for telling the truth about trump's role. >> don't think he's not worried if trump gets in again that he'll come after him again as many others are. >> correct. >> let me use a word for michael cohen that you don't hear a lot. competent. how many lawyers has donald trump been through since he's been in the white house? dozens and dozens. this was his personal watchdog, call it fixer, for ten years, and he kept that job. he's

attorney, former deputy assistant attorney general harry litman's here.analyst tim o'brian's here. and former senator and co-host of msnbc's "how to win 2024" podcast claire mccaskill is here in studio with us. such a treat. yasmin, i start with you. we've been on the air an hour. i want to start, though, with what leapt out at you. there's so much lore around the cohen-trump relationship. i had forgotten about the part where they were like father and son, where cohen loved working for him and felt, quote, like he was on top of the world, end quote, when he made him happy. how did that testimony land for you? >> reporter: it was a huge part -- excuse me, a truck went by behind me, nicolle. it was a huge part of the testimony and the leadup to what took place in 2015 and 2016, the leadup to the payoff. kind of establishing this individual, this man who was very loyal to donald trump. and i actually think it's funny that you start off this way, nicolle, because i think relationships are integral to this trial. right? the relationship that michael cohen and