hartz. >> unless someone else does? >> thank you mr. hartz. >> commissioners, the issue on this agenda item. commissioner studley? >> simply and others can build on this. when the referal from the sunshine ordinance task force i do not see a violation of 67.16. on the specific question on whether the 150-word summaries provided by speakers were properly or improperly included in record of the meetings. the word in the minutes, seems to me to be satisfied by the fact that the documents were pagenated in the examples of of issue here through one through 9 or one through 16 including the addendum, that seems to me the clearest lay version of what is a document? it is a thing that is in a set of continuous pages. they are referred to in the text that were generated by the recording secretary of the meeting. the sunshine ordinance task force cannot add or imply the word in the body of the minutes. that is one way to read it. but that is not in the under-lying law and requirement. we have heard some comment tonight about whether everyone's su

hartz you do not run this agenda the commission does. >> you are out of order, mr. hartz. >>... i could not even speak. >> thank you for the public comment for the public session. hearing none. call the next item. >> the vote on whether to hold item eight in closed session. >> do i have a move? >> i move. >> second. >> all if favor? >> aye. >> thank you >> mr. president we are back in session and you have a forum. >> please call, and removing one of the agendas off the agenda for next week, and that is the officer involved shooting investigation, process. and that is being moved to next week's agenda, and without further adieu? >> yeah, again, just to i know that in the interest of time and i want to get to the presentations that are ahead. the department as we closed

hartz, rebuttal? >> commissioners, this is the same argument that he has been presenting for the last three years. the city attorney says we can do it. and the bottom line is why do they want to? why were they so determined forcing me to go to the sunshine ordinance task force on three separate occasions delaying, delaying sending miss blackman to answer when mr. herrera was the one calling the shots. and mr. herrera did not have the integrity to show up and say to the task force here is why i am doing this. i think that speaks volumes. i think that it speaks to the fact that if i am doing something which i probably know is questionable, i certainly don't want to go before a body who might ask me why are you doing this? i have repeatedly and so have other members of the public asked mr. herrera and the library commission, why are you so determined to stick to this action? and they refused to even discuss it. the only thing they discussed is they asked mr. herrera can we do this, and mr. herrera says,

hartz please. >> but the task force cannot. why is that way? >> the next item on the agenda is 3 b, eth thicks complaint number 1 5-111205 regarding aan action by george wooding and for this item the respondent is phil ginsburg. >> both the complainant and the respondent present? >> complainant? okay. >> mr. wooding. you have up to ten minutes. >> may i shut this? >> yes. >> good evening president hur and commissioners. thank you for listens my name is george wooding. i will start by saying this hearing would have been completely unnecessary had the recreation and parks secretary gong simply reviewed the back up or it or contacted the department of technology and had them review rpd records when they were sunshine requested. within days of sunshine ordinance task force ordering her to do so. my recollection is that they finally provided the e-mails which rpd had previously claimed she had been deleted. i would like to read what miss gong sent, 141 days after my request. >> dear mr. wooding. attached are the documents in response to mr. wooding'

. >> commissioners, ray hartz director of san francisco government. and i like to reiterate and agree with the comment of a lot of the other speakers, which is as it does seem that their policy in the department is one of everybody decides whatever the heck they are going to do and does whatever way they want to do it and then the department feels no responsibility at all to try to correct the mistakes they make because they have not got clear direction. the rbd staff, the parks and recreation should not be allowed to unny laterally decide employee by employee whether they will delete the records and not follow the sunshine ordinance or the brown act or the california public records act. and also like to make a comment on mr. ginsberg's request that you find in favor of what the staff has recommended. well, he is going to say that, because every single time a case comes before you, the staff recommends no violation. even in cases where they have a clear conflict of interest such as my last case, because there was a finding against this body and your e

. >> ray hartzes, director of open government. i am sorry for the officers who gave the presentation on the weapons and the so forth are gone, i think that they did an excellent job. however, i would like to point out to this commission, that none of the slides and statistics and things that were projected were made available in my information packet nor were they available for the public. and as a result, i think that some of you had them, but we were unable to read many of them and certainly not able to take down any notes, and those are requiredments of the sunshine ordinance that documents that are going to be presented at a public meeting are to be made available, i will check on your website to see if they are even there, but i think that i know what i will find. >> to the director's report. first i would like to compliment the director in the fact that i do not remember any time she has presented something at any of these meetings where she has failed to provide the documents that were appropriately part of that presentatio

>> ray hartz, director of san francisco open government and before i start, i will plainly state that prohibting public comment having to do with any item handling with any other item other than for purposes of time are prohibited under both the sunshine ordinance and the brown act. and i am going to go back because i think that some of the comments that i made earlier, were dismissed, rather than responded to. i personally have been in this chamber in the last year, when four times the same excuse was used to rearrange the ago ahead agenda, we have attorneys in here, they are expensive, it is not like it is a big surprise. >> if that is what your priority is, put them third rather than putting them somewhere else and rearranging at the last minute. in addition seven other times i have observed on sfgtv in the last year, whether that was done, that is 11 times, in one year. now, you have about 3 meetings a month in this chamber, others are held at different locations. that is about 36 meetings a year, which is pretty high percentage. all that i am saying is, when the public comes they