hartz, rebuttal? >> commissioners, this is the same argument that he has been presenting for the last three years. the city attorney says we can do it. and the bottom line is why do they want to? why were they so determined forcing me to go to the sunshine ordinance task force on three separate occasions delaying, delaying sending miss blackman to answer when mr. herrera was the one calling the shots. and mr. herrera did not have the integrity to show up and say to the task force here is why i am doing this. i think that speaks volumes. i think that it speaks to the fact that if i am doing something which i probably know is questionable, i certainly don't want to go before a body who might ask me why are you doing this? i have repeatedly and so have other members of the public asked mr. herrera and the library commission, why are you so determined to stick to this action? and they refused to even discuss it. the only thing they discussed is they asked mr. herrera can we do this, and mr. herrera says,

hartz. >> unless someone else does? >> thank you mr. hartz. >> commissioners, the issue on this agenda item. commissioner studley? >> simply and others can build on this. when the referal from the sunshine ordinance task force i do not see a violation of 67.16. on the specific question on whether the 150-word summaries provided by speakers were properly or improperly included in record of the meetings. the word in the minutes, seems to me to be satisfied by the fact that the documents were pagenated in the examples of of issue here through one through 9 or one through 16 including the addendum, that seems to me the clearest lay version of what is a document? it is a thing that is in a set of continuous pages. they are referred to in the text that were generated by the recording secretary of the meeting. the sunshine ordinance task force cannot add or imply the word in the body of the minutes. that is one way to read it. but that is not in the under-lying law and requirement. we have heard some comment tonight about whether everyone's su

hartz or the respondent mr. herrera? >> i have a question for mr. herrera. >> would you mind returning to the podium? >> thank you. >> thank you, mr. herrera. so, the draft format that you distributed today, is that the policy and practice that has been adopted by the library commission going forward? >> it is yet to be adopted but that is what we are intending to do from this point forward. >> and it will be applied to all speakers? >> yes. >> thank you. >> while you are there, mr. herrera, a question. why were you so resistant to putting the 150 words in the body of the minutes as opposed to putting them on as an attachment. >> we had worked with the city attorney's office and followed the good government guide and so based on that opinion, we had basically continued to assert that we were in compliance by attaching them and including them as an attachment. >> but you were aware that after the city attorney had issued that opinion, the sunshine task force said that opinion was wrong and wanted them to go into the body of the minutes. why did you c

hartz please. >> but the task force cannot. why is that way? >> the next item on the agenda is 3 b, eth thicks complaint number 1 5-111205 regarding aan action by george wooding and for this item the respondent is phil ginsburg. >> both the complainant and the respondent present? >> complainant? okay. >> mr. wooding. you have up to ten minutes. >> may i shut this? >> yes. >> good evening president hur and commissioners. thank you for listens my name is george wooding. i will start by saying this hearing would have been completely unnecessary had the recreation and parks secretary gong simply reviewed the back up or it or contacted the department of technology and had them review rpd records when they were sunshine requested. within days of sunshine ordinance task force ordering her to do so. my recollection is that they finally provided the e-mails which rpd had previously claimed she had been deleted. i would like to read what miss gong sent, 141 days after my request. >> dear mr. wooding. attached are the documents in response to mr. wooding'

. >> commissioners, ray hartz director of san francisco government. and i like to reiterate and agree with the comment of a lot of the other speakers, which is as it does seem that their policy in the department is one of everybody decides whatever the heck they are going to do and does whatever way they want to do it and then the department feels no responsibility at all to try to correct the mistakes they make because they have not got clear direction. the rbd staff, the parks and recreation should not be allowed to unny laterally decide employee by employee whether they will delete the records and not follow the sunshine ordinance or the brown act or the california public records act. and also like to make a comment on mr. ginsberg's request that you find in favor of what the staff has recommended. well, he is going to say that, because every single time a case comes before you, the staff recommends no violation. even in cases where they have a clear conflict of interest such as my last case, because there was a finding against this body and your e

lear jet, still a jet, but nowhere near the size of a commercial jet and i suspect that the people at hartzave done just fine, but the comfort level of the pilot is what's important right now because of the other people on board, the pilots, rather, because the other people on board with him. so, you never blame anyone for doing what they're most comfortable with. but they certainly would have far more equipment. >> . >> as we watch, the fox helicopter on its way over to the --. >> jon has shut off and the station shut off at this point when we're headed into controlled air space like lambert, obviously, he's got to fully-- >> as we watch the fox helicopter fly over to lambert for an intended landing there, we're told this is the airfield where they'll attempt their landing and i want to ask about the jet blue video one more time. this plane that we have not yet actually seen. we've seen a u.s. air force plane doing a fly be-by in some way to assist. there was a jet blue plane in 2005 that had to land despite the landing gear problem and what the lear jet is suffering from. it's a beautiful