our next guest didn't see office real estate recovering until 2024 in major cities hassan naji is theommercial real estate marketing firm in the united states i wonder if this is the same prediction as the airlines, airline ceos say they don't expect business travel to recover to prepandemic levels until 2024 but they do see demand surge, next year. how do you see this playing out? a similar way? or are we going to wait until 2024 to wait to see this recovery start to pick up? >> sure. thanks for having me on the program. from an office space usage perspective it is probably going to be 2023, maybe 2024, before we are back to normal, precovid normal however, a couple of thing to keep in mind commercial real estate investing has options. apartments are fully occupied. rent growth is at a record level. necessity retail, fast-food restaurants, drugstores are at a record high. demand for self-storage, student housing, all of these segments are doing well office space is the one laggard, even compared to hotels which were of course shut down and the anticipation is that hospitality, hotels