i think denny hastert is playing some damn game. i think there is a hastert rule. >> you think he's walk it back. >> everyone understood his rule to have been. >> he doesn't want to have his blood on this. >> don't put my rule in this. >> unless you were about to get yourself into a catastrophe and you didn't enforce it. now it's become a little more rule. >> jonathan, let me ask you a question to play devil's advocate for a moment. does this republican argument they want to compromise and sit down and talk and passing business to help the needyest, as it were. does that end up working for them nationally at all? setting asides the conservative districts it doesn't matter what reality is. nationally in terms of polling, it's going to factor into how much people give in the end, does that hold any water? does that argument work? >> it will help with low information voters. it will give a message to political reporters who want a straight line, who want to say this party says this, that party says that, i'm not saying who is right. th

it's ridiculous. >> hastert said the hastert rule is 218 votes so we could get something done. >> jaygration bill the senate passed in june could pass -- sorry, the house passed, could pass the senate. but with 144 house gop members voting for default last night, would john boehner, do you think, risk another vote that required democratic support? >> here's what i think. i think that there are members of the republican party that are ready to reach across the aisle to get it done. and i think that every day -- there are two things that are happening here, right? i mean if he thinks strategically, as newt gingrich in 1996 was thinking, i want to keep the majority, let me get some things done, you know, bob dole is running against bill clinton, but i've got to get things done so i can keep my majority, number one. look, out of the defeat, out of the ashes of the defeat, what do you want to do so people forget your defeat. a victory, right? this is a victory that would be celebrated by the american people because he's already got bipartisan support with it with "the new york times" and "

>> dennis hastert himself has said there is no hastert rule and that is something they use on privilegeleadership position and recognized that 2014 is so critical for the republicans, there are enough votes now to pass the senate bill and even if the republicans decide to do a piecemeal approach that folks have been talking about, they can still reconcile it in committee. frankly, something is better than nothing otherwise republicans will come have a hard time come the 2014 elections. >> we have a press release saying more than 400 conser conservatives will meet with congress to push the immigration reform. how much influence do you think that these conservatives will have and then take in the tea party element and add that to the equation? >> that's the relevant question right now. you have a battle over the republican party and you have mainstream business interest who are trying to pull it back to the center and these are people who favor immigration reform and you have the tea party and this group of 30 to 40 conservative congressmen who want nothing and no part of it and it will b

john boehner has never been a fan of using the term the hastert rule, but the idea of bringing billsy of the majority is something his leadership has tried to do. they recognize that today that might not be possible. we still don't know what the particulars might be of the senate deal but this is very significant that john boehner would not try to do another volley of ideas from the house. but it's an important signal. again, lots to unfold between now and when this eventually comes out, but that's a big sign that things could come into place. i'm also told from senate sources that there are no assurances yesterday from any one or two members, namely a ted cruz or a mike lee, a tea party type senator who might attempt to slow things down, no assurances that there wouldn't be some action to slow things down. at the same time, i'm told if there is a perception of the deal, that that carries a great deal of weight. richard. >> what we know right now. kelly o'donnell, thank you so much. we'll be watching that. >>> checking the news feed this morning, florida police have arrested two youn

and it is called the hastert rule. it's never been called the boehner rule. >> from the fiscal cliff now to day 16 of the government shutdown, what is speaker boehner's legacy so far? and how much support does he have in the caucus? could he face a challenge in the ensuing months? caller: i was thinking about that -- >> iowa thinking about that and that's a very good question. i think in kind of a -- unexpected way that decision to put a bill on the floor today without the majority backing of his own party, is actually could be seen historically as a brave bill, somewhat delayed by two months or three months, but to do so shows he's the speaker of the house not speaker of the republicans. his persona with a backbone has eroded. i think doing this today might change that. with regards to the future, he certainly does probably face potential challenges that could not occur until the next term. but keep this in mind, any challenger, even from the far right, would still have to get a majority of votes of the entire house,

where is the hastert rule now? it is that the majority of republicans have to support something before it's brought to the floor of the house. it seems like a majority of republican the don't want a government shut down, so why did one happen? >> i think what you're seeing right now is that john boehner is actually really trying to protect his majority. and by not allowing, by, you know, holding onto the hastert rule and doing all of this obamacare defunding delay, he's preventing primary challenges for a lot of his members. and i think that that's, it's very difficult position for him to be in, both legislatively and politically. i think in his heart of heart, he doesn't want to see a shutdown. but his hands are tied by members and by conservative outside groups who are saying, you know, we are willing to primary anyone who goes against us right now. >> i guess, i take, i don't take issue with what kate is saying because i think she's right. but this idea that somehow boehner would go down if he did the statesman

but we're going to talk about right now with former republican speaker dennis hastert. former democratic congressman dennis kucinich. dennis, do you think it could happen? >> i think they could. i think that may run down into the debt ceiling issue, you have to remember these are artificial if you did regular order of appropriations and the budget, you would have this done by the end of august. but, because they senate did not pass for a lot of years pass the budget, and even this time they done pass a reconciliation for the budget, you don't have a budget, you e up with a cr, they roadblock. neil: continue resolution. this is a problem with two guests named dennis, dennis kucinich, what do you think of that in a weird way, the calendar fluke works toward getting a dial done sooner rather than -- deal done sooner rather than later. >> i don't know about, that i know, that dow jones was down 127 today. markets want stability. it is very tough to predict what is going on happen on capitol hill, speaker boehner said there will be -- we will not go into default but the fact

they now call that the hastert rule named after the speaker hastert. well, before that, it didn't used to be that way. we used to pass things in the house of representatives with republican and democratic votes. and i give you that great example. i want to give you one of the finest examples of government being able to work during a time of economic emergency. and it was in 1983. we were within six months of shutting down social security because social security was starting to run out of money where it could not make its full payments. it would have made partial payments. and those two irishmen, tip o'neill and ronald reagan, they said we're going to fix it. and what we're going to do 1% first thing, we're going to take this iron rail of american politics, we're going to take it off the table to be used to as a hammer to beat your opponent over the head with in the next election. and then we're going to appoint a blue ribbon panel, and they're going to bring back their recommendation to the congress and we're going to pass it and all of that occurs, an

former speaker denny hastert that said republican backed shouldless always be republican majority. he's had to count on democrats for the majority. a lot of experts are wondering whether this weakens his party standing once and for all. >> given that we're going to be back in this position in january, did anybody come out on top of this and what happens next with boehner? >> we have long results, short results, you name it. short term, we can start with the following. what happens boehner and his speakership. is he going to be able to keep it. >> doesn't seem to be anybody else in the republican majority who has enough votes to overturn boehner. medium term. it means a do-over on both the budgets and the debt early next year. all over again. and long-term, it sets the stage for an ugly blame game in a 2014 and 2016 elections. i'll tell you something, regardless, this is a seminal moment for all of us. but the american public has suffered the most. >> ugly indeed. >> thank you, larry. >>> all right. let's check in one more time with meteorologist jeff ranieri outside. it's starting

less you get 218 -- that is not the hastert will. some of these men and women who were sort of sand in the gears of government are saying no, no, no, we can do it unless we can pass it with republican votes only. that is not hastert rule. i do not know that it is the problem. is problem in my opinion that -- going back to mrs. pelosi. you go back to the four years that mrs. pelosi of california was the speaker of the house. she got through the affordable care act, cap and trade, dodd- able to do it was by twisting arms, breaking arms, and getting 218 of her members to support the legislation. what these 30-40 republicans have yet to realize is that when you deny john boehner, speaker of the house, a functional majority of have 218 votes, you only have a couple of choices. you have deadlock and government shutdown, or he has to pick up this folder, go across the hall on bended knee and say to mrs. lucy, who is now married -- minority leader, -- to mrs. pelosi, minority leader, saying i need some of your votes. anyone who thinks the bi

that's not the hastert rule. and some of these men and women who are sort of singing in the gears of government are saying that no, no, no, we can't do it unless we can pass it with republican votes only. that's not the hastert rule. i don't know that it's the problem. the problem in my opinion is that -- going back to ms. pelosi, if you go back over the four years that ms. pelosi of california was the speaker of the house, she got through the affordable care act, cap and trade, dodd-frank, and she was able to do it by pushing arms, breaking arms, and getting 218 of her members to support the legislation. what these 30 to 40 republicans have yet to realize is that when you deny john boehner, the speaker of the house, the functional majority, of having 218 votes, you only have a couple of choices. you have deadlock and government shutdown, or he has to pick up his folder, go across the hall on bended knee and say, to ms. pelosi, who is now the minority leader, i need some of your votes. any republican that thinks

by not allowing -- by holding on to the hastert rule and doing all of this obama care, defunding delayhe is preventing primary challenges for a lot of his members. i think that's -- it's very difficult position for him to be in both ledgislatively and politically. he doesn't want to see a shut down but his hands are tied by members and outside conservative groups that said we are willing to primary anyone who goes against us right now. >> bruce, i guess i take -- i don't take issue with what kate is saying because i think she is right but this idea that boehner would go down if he did the statesman like thing which is of course to listen to the will of the american people and to continue forward with the american democracy and a represented democracy and introduce legislation that will pass in ten minutes in a bipartisan fashion. i mean, john boehner wants an oil portrait hanging in the halls of congress after he retires from the speakership. given that, why doesn't he take the high road to your mind? does the tea party -- you tweeted earlier there is a slight nooblt boehner is a geniu

boehner has now broken the hastert rule so many times, he cannot hide behind that rationale anymore.last week, he did it once again, with the bill to end the government shutdown and raise the debt ceiling. it wasn't exactly under the cover of darkness. we all watched the roll call. we all watched republicans vote against it. so there is no longer any credible excuse for boehner not to bring the senate bill up for a vote. because john boehner will ultimately shut down the government and then john boehner who opened it back up, and it is john boehner currently shutting out 11 million people from full citizenship. joining me now, jose diaz balart and. jose, do you understand the basic con turs of this, as someone who covers this day in and day out, do you understand them in the same way? >> i do, indeed. but chris, you know something, let's forget about the senate bill for a minute. let's just -- >> throw it out. >> -- forget that the senate bill even exists. in the house of representatives, there has been a small group of four republicans, and that whittled down to essentially one now,

you mentioned -- somebody mentioned the hastert rule here already. it's very clear -- the speaker knows he has 180 to 200 members of his republican conference who believe in affirmative governance, that they believe they have an obligation to govern and on most occasions will be there on those big issues. the challenge is there are two to three dozen members of the house republican caucus that don't share that. it only takes two or three dozen to obstruct the will of the majority. >> affirmative sense of governance? >> meaning you have to vote yes. as a member of congress i feel there's certain things i must do. we must pass a budget. we must fund the government. that's our most basic, fundamental responsibility. we have to deal with the debt limit, we have to deal with various issues that are essential to the fun functioning of the government. that's an affirmative sense of governance. i think most of the members have that sense, but some i think kind of have a minority party mentality. and it's much easier to vote no. but you really don't need to b

but the republicans also, they're playing with this hastert rule, i'm sure you know, that rule says the something up unless a majority of republicans support it. and right now a minority of the majority is holding up the country. and that just isn't right. the center should hold the good people in both parties who want people to get back to work and open yosemite and people to get loans and sign up for clinical trials and all the rest, they got to pass this bill. >> gregg: yeah. so i took a shot at the president with criticism from "wall street journal." what about boehner? is this a guy who has sort of lost control of the house, who has been, you know, subjugated to ted cruz and other conservatives who have taken over? >> yeah. i mean, he's got to stand up to his own party and i understand he's in a very difficult situation because he's got members of his own party who are refusing to go along with any kind of vote that would open the government back up and recognize that obamacare, like it or not, is moving forward. but you know, at the end of the day, he is the speaker. he is the lea

the hastert rule is named for dennis wasp hastert of illinois. it says if the majority party can't get its members to agree to anything, they won't bring the measure to the floor. a majority of the majority has to say yes to proceed. the speaker has the authority to suspend that rule. if he does that, he takes the risk of losing his speakership, because as we know, there are some members of the house of representatives, the so-called conservative or tea party faction who are insisting that there must be some delay or absolute abolishment of the affordable care act. if speaker boehner wants to, he can suspend the rule, bring the measure to the floor and you'd have a vote. >> it would be a bowed move, but maybe one that is required at this point. thanks, randall. >> two agencies impacted by the shutdown are the national hurricane center and fema. workers had been furloughed at both, but with tropical storm karen, that's her, bearing down on the gulf, the white house called them back to work. >> fema has begun to recall currently furloughed employee

often used in misused for political goal well it's definitely one of the peak concerned dicier see hastert in some of the political debates over the past twenty years we have seen emerging concepts which makes security and humanitarian agendas. in a way to basically discredit over time neutral and impartial humanitarian a gender when you call a military intervention in a country a humanitarian intervention you participate in the discreetly taishan and in danger bent of neutral and impartial humanitarian mason you participated in the confusion which is correct to restate for today and which is a burden for an organization like mine which increasingly has to explain when we are active on the ground and to respond to this disturbing question on which side of your many tyrian ism are you and it's troubling for for i see or see definitely but how do you really go about it because the humanitarian fill there if you look at it is getting increasingly more well sophisticated let's say there are a lot of new players again the syrian conflict demonstrated that sometimes you can start collecting fund

host: the definition of the hastert rule is? hastert role is not really a parliamentary rule. it is the house leadership's determination not to pass bills on the floor of the house that don't have the support of the majority of house republicans. i think there is nothing unconstitutional about that. i do think it has made it harder to govern in some respects, and it has been, in fact, relaxed and abandoned on a few important occasions because of that. and john boehner just said yesterday, according to "the new york times" that he would abandon the hastert rule if it meant raising the debt ceiling and prevent the default. although it is frustrating to liberal, i don't know if it is quite as an abomination as the caller makes it sound like. suite --n patriot tweets in -- what about the language of the hot democrats are using against conservatives? guest: i don't think it is particularly helpful rhetoric, and i don't think is -- it is particularly consistent with the calls you have heard from a lot of democrats on civility in public life. beyond that, i guess i wouldn't get too w

and this crunch time is getting down to where the hastert rule is sitting out in the middle of the tablei don't know which way that go. i hope donna supports the langford bill. that would absolution that's favorable. >> you'll have the senate bill before you it looks like. will you vote for the senate bill? >> unlikely. >> i'm prepared to vote for a bipartisan bill. we have enough democrats. we need just a few republicans to get the government going. >> bipartisan bill out of the senate and hopefully a bipartisan bill without speaker boehner in the house. >> take a bipartisan vote in the house. >> has to. >> to pass it. >> since we had a bipartisan bill in the first place. >> we committed 186 votes among democrats to pass a clean funding bill and clean debt ceiling. >> you support langford. >> i don't know what that bill is. >> that's a cr -- >> not 120 days. >> 90 days. >> deal with this and not come back and put american people through shock trauma. >> ironically the langford bill is a longer debt ceiling. >> it is. >> what does it do to obama care? >> doesn't address it. >> this vote

your thoughts on that the what that means the hastert rule is that one hundred seventeen republicans can hold three hundred twenty million americans hostage and try to extract whatever political concessions they want in this case what they're trying to do is give us this choice you can either destroy the government and see it shut down or you can leave fifty million people without health coverage here in the united states and invite them to get sick and die that's not a choice we should ever have to make yeah it's seems baffled the other thing is baffling to me is why the republicans would make their their their final battle you know the line that they're drawing in the sand be we don't want people to have health insurance in the twenty seconds or so we have left your thoughts on that it's despicable it's a very well said congressman alan grayson thank you very much for being with us or thank you to. in the best of the rest of the news actor author and professional wrestler and former governor of minnesota jesse ventura has released a new book titled they killed our president sixty t

that would be a violation ofhe -called hastert rule, and tt requires a majority ofajority support to bring a bill to the floor, does the speak or that. >> we'll find out. a violation could cost him his speakehip. >> fox news, mikemmanuelle on capitol hill with the report. >> reporter: biptisan leaders of senate said their conversations wereeaded for success in final hours. >> i'm optimistic. we will reach an agreement. it is reasonable in nature this week. to reopen the government, pay nation's bills and begin long-term negotiation. >> no discussions continue, i share his optimism that we'll get aesult that will be acceptable to both sides. >> reporter: reid's goa of a longer term debt ceiling with a shorter ter government funds bill to fight sequester cuts, and mcconnell side, favored a longer term package, so g.o.p. be argue something to do about debt. >> the 6 time that president wants a debt ceiling increase, they want a million dollars a minute for the next yr, beyond the 2014 elections, unchecked. >> reporter: democrats have cite criticizes republicans for overreaches, republic

negotiated on this issue, they dealt with each other whether it was tip o'neill and reagan or clinton with hastertwhoever it was. neil: president made clear he is not budging on this. so, this could drag on a while circumstance this your night -- while, is that your might mayor? it could be a i did fall? >> when it comes to markets, i think that markets are getting louder and clearly, i don't know if the end of the worldcoms as we move forward, but the think that markets are worried. i agree with david, i think you don't look good if you are not negotiating, you deal with grown men and women, politicians that were elected. at least sit down and try to come up with something. >> you don't buy olive branch thing? that president supposedly has thrown out? >> he says i'm not going to negotiate. not doing any negotiating, you have to do to get the deal done, but people like jon stewart. he had an interview with sebelius he was slamming sebelius. >> i don't know how you sit there and negotiate, when you call people extortionists and language like that. you have to get on a playing fields where there is

i think at this point, this so-called hastert rule in the house has to go by the boards.ou can't allow 50, 60, 80 people to keep the whole government hostage. that's just ridiculous. this whole thing could be solved in 15 minutes with an open vote on the house floor and just move on. >> the independent senator from maine angus king, that you so much for your thoughts. >> thank you. >> john stanton, welcome to washington. i want to ask you first you have a piece about the dynamic between mcconnell and boehner. mcconnell isn't going to agree to anything he doesn't think can pass the house, a senate gop leadership aide said. adding mcconnell has absolutely been providing boehner with updates. a difficult primary and general election ahead of him, mcconnell isn't looking to be held a bag conservatives oppose again. how does this morning change that? here it seems like conservatives are opposing the bag mcconnell was trying to check at the house of representatives. >> if you look, he's canceled his meeting with his members of the senate side to brief them on this deal. this co

the house speaker said he'd set-aside the so- called "hastert rule" which would only bring measures up for a vote if they are backed by a majority of their caucus. boehner would then rely on democrats to pass a measure to raise the nation's debt limit. earlier today... the president and republicans still argued over the federal government shutdown... now in its third day. there is one way out of this reckless and damaging republican shut down. congress has to pass a budget that funds our government with no partisan strings attached. five years president obama has carried a i won, my way or the highway attitude and he has not reached across the aisle to republicans. the conservative wing of the repubican party is still demanding that any spending measure to bring the government shutdown to an end... include provisions to dismantle or defund obamacare... which became law in 2010 and was upheld by the supreme court last year. a forecasted storm is putting some goverment employees back to work. the federal emergency management agency recalled some furloughed workers to prepare for tropical

what would happen to the speaker, to john boehner if he decided to ignore the so-called hastert ruleo the floor and let it be majority rule? >> well, you'll have to ask the speaker. i wouldn't want to speculate. >> what would happen inside the caucus? what do you think would happen to him politically. >> all i can tell you this morning the speaker told the conference he seemed pretty firm in this resolve there is no back room, there is no deal being made. what we see is what is actually happening. i'll take the speaker at his word on that. >> thank you very much, congressman. thanks for being with us today. >> thank you. >> meanwhile our friend brian williams visited the set of the "late show with david letterman" last night and shared his take on the rather absurd goings on in washington. >> this was the chaplain who started services on capitol hill this morning. listen to this. senate chapman barry black, quote, deliver us from the hypocrisy from attempting to sound reasonable while being unreasonable. that's in the opening prayer. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] the all-new 2014 lexu

we talk about the hastert rule which is a majority of the majority. what is at odds here. it is possibility it is a minority of the majority that would have voted against a clean cr. when i was going back and forth with robert costa, that knows it well, he is talking about a clean cr to avoid a shut down. >> he could manfully get on the floor of the house of representatives and say to those 80 republicans -- kamikaze district and say i have 200 democrats who will vote for a clean cr and 100 republicans, as well. if you don't want to do it i will get the votes from other there. sit down in the corner and be quiet. >> what do you think of that? >> the cr number is their number. this is what they have been asking for. we have asked for conference on this budget since april 23rd when chris van holen offered his resignation. i cosponsored it. boehner wouldn't do it. not probably because he didn't want to but because he does not control the republican conference. i'm not sure who does. it seems as though the speaker of the house is ted cruz at this point in

private assurances he will not let the debt ceiling go by, the crisis take place he will invoke the hastert rule and let the debt ceiling be raised with democratic votes if necessary. has he given that assurance to the white house? >> i am not aware of such an assurance. if you look at what the president is saying today on the government shutdown, the president has made it very clear, just let a vote take place. the message has been if john boehner bring a clean, continuing resolution for six weeks, simply put that on the floor and let both democrats and republicans vote that a bipartisan majority would carry that forward and open the u.s. government. i think that is the exact right attitude to have on having a clean extension of the debt limit as well. i really would like to hope there are very few people that would like to use the threat of default to make the united states suffer those type of consequences. i think as you mentioned about the damage for years to come, many people estimate if you default even once that beyond the harm that could do in risking another recession, it could ha

only if a majority of the republicans are in favor of something, the so-called hastert rule will he allow it to come to the floor. is he still holding firmly on that? >> he has never subscribed to that as a rule. he's let lots of things come to the floor with bipartisan support, violence against women act and -- >> go ahead. >> sorry, violence against women act and he's let other things like that come to the floor. the payroll tax extension, but this particular issue is sody visive and so -- has so much passion among the base, and therefore, among many in his conference that he's simply not been willing to allow this to come up for a bipartisan vote. >> if he were to allow it to come up for a vote, you say scott ridgell would be on board for a clean piece of legislation without any attachments to obama care. and if all the democrats were to support it it, you'd need 17, 1, 20 republicans to support it and you got peter king, you've interviewed him, charlie dent. there are at least a dozen, but are there 20? >> you know, what those members told me is if they actually had the bill presented

but this is going to be like the hastert rule where the majority of the majority were to support a bill, it looks like it will be carried by a majority of democrats in the senate and probably a majority of democrats in the house afterward. >> the old dark joke in the middle east, if you are an arab israeli negotiator, you'll never be out of a job. and you are a gridlock government specialist there and you're never out of that job. i fear we'll talk to you months ahead about the same debate. >> clever. >> thanks, guys. >> up next, boehner's move, we'll take a closer look at the speaker's role in all of this as "the cycle" rolls on. [ male announcer ] this is claira. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for her, she's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with her all day to see how it goes. [ claira ] after the deliveries, i was okay. now the ciabatta is done and the pain is starting again. more pills? seriously? seriously. [ groans ] all these stops to take more pills can be a pain. can i get my aleve back? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. [ male anno

that's why, hastert said, trent lott our republican mississippi friend said i couldn't work with theseuys. long term, they have hourt themselves. >> thank you both for joining me tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. >> coming up -- threatening default has already cost the government millions. we'll explain how. in the rewrite tonight, one of our greatest and most experienced actors, sir anthony hopkins, rewrites the history of acting and crowns a new king of acting. and he did it -- immediately after marathon viewing every episode of breaking bad. and later, the screen writer of the new movie about wikileaks, the fifth estate will join me. if we have time i will show you a clip of some of his writing for "the west wing" that's coming up. versations than i'm equipped for, because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy more than a few times before they're grown. but it's for them, so i've found a way. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your future? we'll help you