the termination >> so commissioner andrews sorry commissioner hayon you want to say something. >> if we recommend a dismissal did that mean an employee would be dismissed or is it our recommendation only to terminate the employee i find it hard to believe anyone will implement that. >> it's our recommendation only a recommendation had we hope carry some wealthy we're not only a voice crying? wilderness an observation that something has been done that violates ethnical conduct whether or not the person gets suspended or dismissed we don't know. we've made the statement and i think it's an important statement to make. as i understand the proposal from commissioner andrews it is that after 90 days if a person did not file their form seven hundred we send a letter to the office of the individual or entity that has the authority to remove that person or discipline that person and say within 60 days the ethics commission will if they don't file we will make a determination about recommending further action against - and i would - i would tighten it up >> they're accountable and i would be

. >> commissioner hayon. >> where to begin. i guess one way to address the grand jury report is to go through each single finding and each single recommendation line by line that's fine i'm not opposed to that but i would like to recommend my fellow commissioners there are much larger policy issues that have been recommended here that we need to address. so whether or not we agree that we lack resources or don't lack resources i don't think is the important issue we need to address and the grand jury has brought before us they're making strong representations about how to handle policy, how we should work with other agencies and whether or not we should even exist or doing the bulk of the work assigned to us those are major issues we need to discuss thoroughly and we can certainly go line by line by i personally would like to put my energy into the much large policy issues that have been recommended here. >> yes. >> my name is larry bush a member of the civil grand jury that worked on the report i'm speaking in this capacity sp

any other - commissioner hayon >> i want to comment on recommendation 28. not necessarily our response but i just want to say for the record that this feels like a star-chamber procedure or a game. and i think that hass as noted in our response at any meeting people certainly the public is free to bring up any issues of this nature has it is but i would be hesitant to have this be a form aspect of the commissioner hearings. >> i agree i don't think it's we should include that. in our formal hearings. any further comments from the commissioners? >> (inaudible). >> yes. well, i'm proposing we delete the second sentence for recommendation 28. i next propose i would propose this is a politically troubling idea for the views are astonishing and i'll delete in the second to last response as troubling and finally, i would delete the last sentence. i'm not sure how my fellow commissioners feel about that or if there's a motion. is there a motion to adapt recommendation 28 as amended >> so moved that we adapt. >> is there a second. >> second. >> public comments? com

i wanted to echo what commissioner hayon said as well in regards to the report itself. i think the report is an excellent documents shows a lot of work work and the senator said it's highly readingable and very much a set of instructions that many of which we should follow in regards to the civil grand juries roll during the course of any career having been an assistant dpw department head of a depended for years there were two times my department was the topic of civil grand jury reports each time each department is looked at by the civil grand jury there are a couple of responses that sort of incity council's occur one the defenseness that automatically takes place their krisz us they're saying we're bad therefore we have to reopened in some way to show they're wrong. i think that that is a totally unproductive way to address something like the civil grand juries effort in my efforts in this situation that's not how i'm going to address it. in regard to some of the comments that were made preliminary related to our proposed draft i agree with the comments the draft it

. >> so your motion is as read by commissioner hayon and your seconding. >> yeah. >> the public comment on that particular - yes. >> i have not submitted moisten well, i have something presented to the ethics commission of trying to get a record. when i didn't get - when the others saw the people that should respond said they agreed with me and would respond they never respond. well, does that mean i have to come back and get nothing done?. it seems like that some action can be taken sort of a if you go investigation maybe a referral to some other agency you can say we don't have staff to do this but we think the district attorney should investigate. but the two things i've brought that i put a lot of work into presenting a case one was to the grand jury of alameda county they made a pitch to the public submit our complaints i didn't get any acknowledgment. i found other people had gotten action times when i investigated the process it seems like the complaints that are address to the grand jury were first submitted to the district attorney. and the complaint i made was very severe abou

. >> commissioner hayon. >> question about committees are we talking about committees topping made up of commissioners. >> yes. >> or could we appoint other people to members of those committees. >> i don't believe so. >> because we're a small commission we're limited in how often we can meet with one other and when we can meet with on other because of the brown act and the other sunshine ordinances so i i don't know how we would easily implement a committee structure given there are only 5 people that on the commission if anyone has thoughts i'd like to hear them. >> we'll take opinion. >> you said. >> we'll take public comment but while we're doing 22 does anyone have anything for 23. >> yes. on page 167 the first full sentence the ethics commission hass and the director take out the words and the director and put in the ethics commission is will. >> okay. >> i also wanted to delete the sentence this is exaggerated from finding 23. commissioner andrews sorry >> so we have here in the finding that it's say conflicts every risen repeating not a number but in the finding response we sa

heinecke i didn't philippines and the sky is falling pr i agree with commissioner hayon. want to appoint a committee and come back and report to the if you commission it's a great way of handling it >> all in favor the changes proposed for recommendation 23 and 22. i >> i. >> opposed. hearing none. passes. i would say if possible to take 24, 45 e 25 and 26 together is there an objection in the 5 e25 an objection in the commission? commissioner keane >> yes. mr. chair for the language on page 16 recommendation 25 in the middle of the paragraph the director notes i'd change that to the commission notes. >> anything else? i would - i have a couple of amendments on 24 on the recommendation it is sort of seems like it's not responding to the recommendation i mean that be directed to the mayor and the board of supervisors if that he direct it to the to court we should provide it to them but it is nonresponsive as written in my view. i would propose an amendment in the mayor or board makes a request i ask we comply with it. on 25 the recommendation i mean, i think to see what co

i wanted to echo what commissioner hayon said as well in regards to the report itself. i think the report is an excellent documents shows a lot of work work and the senator said it's highly readingable and very much a set of instructions that many of which we should follow in regards to the civil grand juries roll during the course of any careera

three commissioners -- commissioner hur, renne and commissioner hayon are political flacks answerable own to those that appoint them. that is not a personal attack. it is my personal opinion and i base it on years of watching you. you do nothing but protect the people and in my case that was heard without my presence commissioner hayon participated defended the person that was on the opposite side of the case. talked all about the reasons why they were right and why i was wrong and then at the end recused herself to avoid the appearance of a conflict when she actively was in a conflict during the entire proceeding. i had sincere hopes for the new commissioners and although they talk a good game there is nothing that will indicate that they will just follow the lead of the other members. i challenged you before. come here before the public and gave examples how you improved city government. you never do for the simple reason you can't. you don't do a damn thing to make government in this city better, nothing. in fact you are the antithesis of what the >> yaerth preparedness is a way of

and county of san francisco and they have a mandate attached to it and something that commissioner hayon pointed out a good point and two architects on the commission and both have come before you for a waiver which is something that shouldn't be dismissed. with those ark seats -- architect seats and commissioner hayon made a good point many work with the city and county and to dismiss anyone because of that not taking into consideration commissioner chow's ability to wall himself off from the conflicts deprives a large portion of citizens from serving on the commission in this instance and does a disservice to the people of the city and county to do that so we're chrj charged in the mayor's office to appoint diverse appointees and this is part of that and i ask you to approve this and it's difficult for the mayor to fill the seat in a manner that would not be present a conflict for that commissioner. and i am happy to answer any questions. >> [inaudible] >> are we taking questions? yeah ms. wheaton. so are you aware of commissioner comight's waiver? >> his waiver request? yeah. i was ma

as much as and would like the question is what do you do with the resources i go to commissioner hayons comments it's your policy to determine what the staff does with the resources. i'd like to see the question discussed especially, when we get into those matters is whether or not the resources you have could be relooked to respond more appropriating to some of the recommendations from the civil grand jury. in terms of you don't have to be doing badly to be doing better the question is not can we find justification for explaining away but taking what they've given us and implementing to whatever degree including reallocating the resources in that effort >> thomas again. first, i'm troubled by the chair of this commission not being here for this important discussion. this hearing was noticed especially and it shouldn't have been noticed without the chair of the commission i'm disappointed in that regard and his absent sends a message to what you're responses are a going to be here today, i support the motion that i commissioner keane. you should fully agree with the recommendations and

. >> commissioner hayon. >> would this include the official expediters. >> theirs included? new lobbyist rules. >> yeah. i was wondering if that was what you were going after mr. hud. >> thank you, commissioner. as i recall there have been so many cases since this reason trigger the law as a result their compensations is captured the lobbyist have changed there was a deliberate attempt to cast the net has wide as possible so on outside lobbyist you make one contact with a city official you have to automatically registration as a lobbyist then the issue that's known as obligates that is directed towards the public saying hey please contact our public officials to do xyz. that gets to the expertise lobbyist that was addressed it's true we don't have a regime for that right now. so whether it's that's called for or not if the grand jury thinks to some stent it is that makes sense >> any other comments from the commissioners on finding recommendation 10? finding and recommendation 11? i also want some clarification on 11. i don't know if the city attorney actually should talk ab

. >> commissioner hayon. >> would this include the official expediters. >> theirs included? new lobbyist rules. >> yeah. i was wondering if that was what you were going after mr. hud. >> thank you, commissioner. as i recall there have been so many cases since this reason trigger the law as a result their compensations is captured the lobbyist have changed there was a