and what burned many about charlottesville, he didn't seize on the death of heather heyer. zed on both sides and anti-fa, reducing the reality of the role of racism. why? if that bigot who killed heather were mexican, you think this president would have been similarly silent? be honest. no, right? he would have used it. he would have used her death as proof of a wickedness, a problem, but not here. is entering illegally really worse than what heather heyer's death was about? the president played to the petty, bringing racism where it wasn't with spike lee. and he's poisoning us by ignoring bigotry but while it would be great to have leadership come from the top, last night in the oscars we got to see how the rest of you can make things better on your own, rewarding those who speak truth about our reality, that truth and embracing diversity, those are the best hope for america becoming greater still. and i hope that this president if he's going to keep taking these shots, at some point he at least owns why he does it. just like we always say on this show, why lie? if you have

but when this bigot kills heather heyer, that doesn't speak to any problem. that doesn't speak to anything. and he had to be chased into saying the right thing about heather heyer, where he leaps the chance to make so much more of these others. it's obvious. it's obvious, and it's ugly. i just hope at some point he owns it. >> it's also where your priorities are. and even if you use it because it's politically expedient, ignoring the problem or prioritizing the wrong things, that is also racist behavior and ignorance. and ignorance is part of racism. >> sure it is. it's one of the most dangerous types of indifference that we have seen in world history, where you know that what you're saying is stirring a very dangerous brew. >> yeah. >> and while you may not really be that convinced of it yourself, it doesn't matter. in some ways it makes it worse, that you just see the effect of it. you see the need for it in yourself and what you want to achieve, and then you do it? you own it. >> well, as i said during the campaign, i said he -- i started by saying if he's

they were obviously injured by the car that killed heather heyer and injured many more. these courageous plaintiffs have put their name on the suit because law enforcement itself wasn't going to make the forward movement on this issue that we necessary, which is that there was a conspiracy to commit violence. the kkk act was passed by the reconstructionist congress as a way to protect communities against post-civil war violence. it obviously has not had to be used very frequently in recent years. one of the more frequent uses was during the freedom rides. say, we are dealing with a somewhat unique situation. at the same time, the fact that ,aw enforcement are prosecuting everyone knows that the man who drove the car was convicted of murder, but we felt there needed to be additional forward movement here. in this case, a strong legal precedent to help so having that sort of balance between law enforcement and people were willing and the in their private capacities to do something that is brave and courageous, to put a -- to put their name on a suit like this, is important

they were obviously injured by the car that killed heather heyer and injured many more. these courageous plaintiffs have put their name on the suit because law enforcement itself wasn't going to make the forward movement on this issue that we felt was necessary, which is that there was a conspiracy to commit violence. the suit is under some a copy kkk act of 1871, which was passed by the reconstructionist congress as a way to protect communities against post-civil war violence. it obviously has not had to be used very frequently in recent years. i think one of the more frequent uses was during the freedom rides. needless to say, we are dealing with a somewhat unique situation. at the same time, the fact that law enforcement are prosecuting, everyone knows that the man who drove the car was convicted of murder. but at the same time we filter needed to be additional forward -- we felt there needed to be additional forward movement here. in this case, a strong legal precedent to help so having that sort of balance between law enforcement and people were willing in their pri

counterprotester heather heyer murdered, mowed down. none of us can forget what the president of the united states said. >> you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. you had people in that group -- excuse me, excuse me. i saw the same pictures as you did. >> i think that is why it is so important for the president to emphatically say once i did something really terrible, and it shouldn't happen, but it didn't. he had to do the whole on both sides thing. on both sides. there are certain situations, and you hear me talk about it all the time where there are -- there's no both sides. there's no both sides to racism. there's no both sides to sexism. there's no both sides to fact or nonfact and reality and nonreality. there's no both sides to a truth and a lie. there's no both sides to this. and when i saw it, quite frankly i wasn't surprised. if anybody out there, if all the folks who went to high school with me around the time 1984 -- i was a senior in high school in 1984. that is not shocking to me. people did that in

if you weren't moved art heather heyer was killed in charlottesville, i don't know what it's going to take. >> racists cannot be moved. the point of this cannot be to convince racists to be a little bit less racist just this one time. that cannot be the point. the point has to be to inspire people who haven't made a call yet, to inspire who were on the fence about racism, to inspeire the 100 million people who couldn't get off the couch and vote in 2016, and the people who have already cast their hat in with a bigot and a sexist, we don't have to talk about anymore. >> thanks so each of you for your views. and we have a lot of other people on this show and a lot of other views, so we'll get them in, as well. >>> coming up, we'll talk about michael cohen and the sdny with the actual prosecutor who ran that office, exclusive. later, trump secretly overruling white house officials to get kushner a security clearance. that story is breaking in our hour. and beat cameras catch up to person number two, randy credico. he's speaking out for the first time since the indictment. and new insight

northam talking about the white nationalist riot that happened in charlottesville in which one woman heather heyer was killed and two others killed in a helicopter crash. here's ralph northam in november of 2017. >> we have a tremendous tragedy in charlottesville two months ago. our president didn't stand up and call the white supremacists out for who they are. ed gillespie has had over 70 days to stand up and denounce our president for not standing up and calling these supremacists out for who they were. to tell them that we don't condone hatred and bigotry in virginia and don't come back to virginia. >> that is, you know, the ralph northam of today, which is, obviously, relevant and should be, continue to be relevant, but can that ralph northam survive this scandal? >> no. i think because of that ralph northam, the picture that came out makes it impossible for him to even have the moral authority to be -- to remain governor. i want to be clear that i am speaking for myself and not the institution for which i work. because of that clip that you just showed and people knew that about ralph northam