hecker: and the third is domestic.n north korea, the first two once play that role but tested, all of them played a role so now getting rid of the weapons will be difficult because of that. why do they want them to still primarily, i think, regime survival. however, again, that discussion we had this week, some of my actually brought up the fact that, you know, kim , he had recognized south far out ahead economically that the idea of ever taking south korea over is gone. young man is a very and the economy is actually oing reasonably well in spite of all the sanctions and everything, so it isn't clear that there aren't some thoughts that if he builds up this arsenal of 10 weapons, 20 weapons, 30 weapons, he actually looks at that as a mechanism by unificationould get back, and so i would not rule regime. in this current it wasn't there during kim chung il, and it may be there now. that's very worrisome. another question. >> wave your hand. there you go. >> i'm wondering if you could continue with this theme of regime s

george perkovich, before him, william potter, who is next to professor hecker. he's the sam nunn and richard lugar professor of non-proliferation studies. professor potter served as a consultant to the u.s. arms control and disarmament agency, the rand corporation, and the lawrence livermore national laboratory. proffer potter is a prolific author, he's written, edited, or co-edited at least 20 books and has contributed chapters and articles to more than 120 scholarly books and journals on such subjects as nuclear terrorism, nuclear arms control, nuclear non-proliferation, and nuclear issues involving the states of the former soviet union, especially the russian federation, kazakhstan and kyrgyzstan. he's an exceptionally well informed researcher. to his writings i turn when i'm designing kourgs course sill by and designing lectures dealing with nuclear weapons. and last but not least, dr. george perkovich, vice president for studies at the carnegie endowment for international peace. which ask a non-profit organization devoted to promoting international cooperat

and that's what our -- what we're doing now on this issue. >> professor, hecker? yes. >> let me start by sort of backing what george said in terms of bipartisanship. north korea is a great example of bipartisan failure and everything was bipartisan. if you go back and you want to assess the blame to somebody, you can start with reagan and they were laying the foundation for a nuclear program during ronald reagan's presidency. during george h.w. bush, they essentially got everything ready so by 1992, they were ready. you know, and then during clinton, it turns out they actually went back for a while but while they went back on lieu tone yum, they were developing the uranium path to the bomb so they made progress. during george w. bush, they built the first bombs. you know? he said, we'll never, you know, let north korea get a bomb. well, they got a bomb. by the time he went out of office, they probably had five or so bombs but they were pretty crude. and then we got president obama. by the time he goes out of office, they may have 20. 16 to 20. i'm not worried abou

in recent news professor hecker has worked with russian nuclear laboratories to secure the enormous stockpile of the are materials that russian had inherited from the soviet union. he is now compiling and editing a book that will serve as russian colleagues history of cooperation. that hasn't come out yet has it? his now compiled and edited a book in the history the history of cooperation between russian and american laboratory since -- at least if i understand it you can update me, his current research deals with the problem of reducing the risk of nuclear terrorism worldwide and the challenges that nuclear india, pakistan and north korea, as well as the nuclear aspirations of iran. he has been an important contributor to public debate about nuclear issues in the united states and beyond. recent publications that got my attention included article entitled stop killing iran's nuclear science. >> george is next to professor hecker, and oppressive nonproliferation studies nonproliferation studies of the founder director of the james martin center. professor potter served as a consultant to the

hecker will be one of the participants in that meeting. so i would say that by way of background. if you could indulge me, if i can make just one other set of points and that has to do with nuclear terrorism and nuclear security. about ten years or so ago i co-authored a book on the four faces of nuclear terrorism. and as has been kind of alluded to, these different facets or faces of terrorism involve what people, you know, talk about as a dirty bomb or at least some form of radiological dispersal device by conventional means and we can talk about the attacks or sabotage of nuclear facilities and of concern to both the russians and the americans. one can talk about an improvised nuclear device which is a real nuclear explosive, even if it's not a sophisticated one of the sort that dr. hecker could probably readily produce and then there's also -- >> in his kitchen. >> -- potential for the theft or seizure and use of nuclear weapons from actual arsenals. those are four very different forms

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