but he said he'd known nixon from the beginning, from the helen gehagan douglas days. >> from the '50s and he didn't really like him very much, did he? >> it was about character, had he a sense. and he was a very hard-working reporter-researcher. his car too long was based on information and fact. and he was very determined to get it right. >> and he was also courageous. going back to the 1950s and mccarthyism. in fact he is the one that coined the term. >> exactly with a cartoon, after a naming wheeling, west virginia speech, i they are showing it, he wrote at the tom, mccarthyism. and mccarthy was ruining people right and left. >> in washington and out in hollywood. >> yes. >> and so it took a lot of courage to stand up to mccarthy at that point. >> exactly. herb was fearless. >> it was really amazing to see that he was able to stand up to those power players as a cartoonist. now people don't know that much about him. he really had a very interesting background. >> that's why we made the film. yeah. >> one of the things that you found, you know, he was a very humble guy. but then, yo