helen welcome to the helen joyce. helen welcome to no snow— helen joyce. s too. but you know, good riddance to bad rubbish is the i'd put it. if you're the way i'd put it. if you're not willing stand up for not willing to stand up for everybody's rights, what job do you at hrc? but there's you have at the hrc? but there's a you have at the hrc? but there's o-nnoiion— you have at the hrc? but there's o-nnoiion nono- you have at the hrc? but there's a-problem here, isn't- a broader problem here, isn't inonoo— a broader problem here, isn't there?_the| there? because this isn't the oniy— there? because this isn't thei only—activists only example where activists nowo — only example where activists have-underhandl only example where activists- have - underhand tactics have have used underhand tactics to have have used underhand tactics iolono— have have used underhand tactics iolono onno— have have used underhand tactics to.and drive women- have have used underhand tactics to and drive women of to try and drive women out of non— to try and drive women out of inoi

helen welcome to the helen joyce. helen welcome to no snow— helen joyce. a-problem here, isn't- a broader problem here, isn't inonoi—inoi there? because this isn't the oniy— there? because this isn't thei only—activists only example where activists nowo — only example where activists have-underhandl only example where activists- have - underhand tactics have have used underhand tactics to have have used underhand tactics iolono— have have used underhand tactics iolono onno— have have used underhand tactics to.and drive women- have have used underhand tactics to and drive women of to try and drive women out of non— to try and drive women out of inoin nosis— to try and drive women out of inoin gosis ii— to try and drive women out of their posts if they— to try and drive women out of their posts if they dare to noosson— their posts if they dare to reassert the _ their posts if they dare to reassert the importance of women's-based- reassert the importance of women's-based this women's sex based rights. this is-nnoiion- women's sex based rights. this is-nnoiion

trans is written by helen joyce- on, my— you. trans is written by helen joyce. oh, my gosh. sorry. don't want to hear you talk because we tan-t— to hear you talk because we tan-t-whh— to hear you talk because we don't-with-ideas.| don't agree with your ideas. ves- — don't agree with your ideas. yes. _debating- don't agree with your ideas. yes. debating society. yes. in the debating society. tttght— yes. in the debating society. tttght-thhs— yes. in the debating society. right-this is- yes. in the debating society. right. this is this is so right. well, this is this is so the— right. well, this is this is so the headline— right. well, this is this is so the headline says oxford insists taeeaam— the headline says oxford insists freedom _ alive - freedom of speech is alive and wen— freedom of speech is alive and wett—hut- freedom of speech is alive and wett—huleaul well at university. but as you tust— well at university. but as you tust saw— well at university. but as you tust saw, the— well at university. but as you just say, the attempt by oxford stutents— just say, the attempt by o

trans is written by helen joyce- on, my— you. trans is written by helen joyce. oh, my gosh. sorry. because we tan-t-whh— to hear you talk because we don't-with-ideas.| don't agree with your ideas. ves- — don't agree with your ideas. yes. _debating- don't agree with your ideas. yes. debating society. yes. in the debating society. tttght— yes. in the debating society. tttght-thhs— yes. in the debating society. right-this is- yes. in the debating society. right. this is this is so right. well, this is this is so the— right. well, this is this is so the headline— right. well, this is this is so the headline says oxford insists taeeaam— the headline says oxford insists freedom _ alive - freedom of speech is alive and wen— freedom of speech is alive and wett—hut- freedom of speech is alive and wett—huleaul well at university. but as you tust— well at university. but as you tust saw— well at university. but as you tust saw, the— well at university. but as you just say, the attempt by oxford stutents— just say, the attempt by oxford stutents ta— just say, the attempt by oxford students to d

was at caniviaae— stock when helen joyce was at cambridge-v- stock when helen joyce was at cambridge steve, that freedom _ so it's not true, is it, steve, that freedom of— so it's not true, is it, steve, that freedom of speech is alive ana— that freedom of speech is alive and-av— that freedom of speech is alive and-at university?- that freedom of speech is alive and at university? i mean, and well at university? i mean, the and well at university? i mean, vne—ie- and well at university? i mean,| vne—ie vnav the point they're making is that van-ve— the point they're making is that van-ve nev— the point they're making is that you're not allowing no platform ine— you're not allowing no platform inn-aveiien— you're not allowing no platform ing. problem you've ing. the problem is then you've got ing. the problem is then you've gen—aevn- ing. the problem is then you've gen—ievn vne- got to go further down the enain. — got to go further down the chain. .protests- got to go further down the chain. protests outside chain. yes. protests outside someone. they— chain. yes. protests outside someo

joining me now is helen joyce, who is the author of helen joyce, who is the author ot the— helen joyced even be called to be banned from talking at a university.— to be banned from talking at a university. events— to be banned from talking at a university. events somewhere where— university. events somewhere where freedom _ university. events somewhere where freedom of speech and epessiom— where freedom of speech and expression and _ where freedom of speech and expression and academic tiseowrse— expression and academic discourse is— expression and academic discourse is supposed to have top— discourse is supposed to have top priority.— discourse is supposed to have top priority. your— discourse is supposed to have top priority. your views ? i top priority. your views? i eompteteiy— top priority. your views? i completely agree with you. i too heve— completely agree with you. i too heve written — completely agree with you. i too have written a _ completely agree with you. i too have written a book— completely agree with you. i too have written a book about these issues. as kathleen has, a

or more recently, nennen— helen joyce or more recently, hannah barnes.— helen joyce or more recentlywhere not a single professor will stand up and say that sex is real. if somebody in a workplace in the uk says that sex is real, she'll be bullied. so we're so far from the crossroads. when we finally are talking reality again. so it's just full on to keep challenging these people so , so many people these people so, so many people self—censor. so many people self—censon so many people se—sensenii— self—censon so many people self—censor. and— self—censon so many people self—censor. and this- vi.vi so many people self—censor. and this is how inev— self—censor. and this is how inev siiiie— self—censor. and this is how they stifle the— self—censor. and this is how they stifle the discussion , they stifle the discussion, iesese— they stifle the discussion, because for— they stifle the discussion, because for the vast majority of peepie— because for the vast majority of peepie eni— because for the vast majority of people out there— because for the vast majority of people out there who just

you've got to get helen joyce—got- people. you've got to get helen royoo _trot to i joyce in there.ea here, hmc, the headmasters conference—eel conference goes for this idea of the tmpettenee— conference goes for this idea of the importance of— conference goes for this idea of the importance of listening to peepte—wttt- the importance of listening to. people _with diverse people who disagree with diverse range— people who disagree with diverse range-experiences— people who disagree with diverse range experiences and range of experiences and eptntene— range of experiences andi opinions,_blah. range of experiences and- opinions,_blah. and opinions, blah blah, blah. and tteet-e— opinions, blah blah, blah. and tteet-e ett— opinions, blah blah, blah. and that's all fine— opinions, blah blah, blah. and that's all fine except fact that's all fine except the fact tteet— that's all fine except the fact tteet-tteet- that's all fine except the fact that closed conference. that it was a closed conference. so that it was a closed conference. so netmetty— that it was a closed conference. so norma

you've got to get helen joyce—got- people. you've got to get helen royoo _trot to i joyce in there. hmc, the headmasters conference—eel conference goes for this idea of the tmpettenee— conference goes for this idea of the importance of— conference goes for this idea of the importance of listening to peepte—wttt- the importance of listening to. people _with diverse people who disagree with diverse range— people who disagree with diverse range-experiences— people who disagree with diverse range experiences and range of experiences and eptntene— range of experiences andi opinions,_blah. range of experiences and- opinions,_blah. and opinions, blah blah, blah. and tteet-e— opinions, blah blah, blah. and tteet-e ett— opinions, blah blah, blah. and that's all fine— opinions, blah blah, blah. and that's all fine except fact that's all fine except the fact tteet— that's all fine except the fact tteet-tteet- that's all fine except the fact that closed conference. that it was a closed conference. so that it was a closed conference. so netmetty— that it was a closed conference. so normally that