and chief political -- msnbc national affairs analyst john hellman is here.he program at the beginning of the night and i wasn't sure where -- fell in. i've had the privilege of speaking to both of them. they are incredible. but once kamala harris got into the national security section, not just her credentials, but her indictment of trump's. it all clicked into place and i heard in his remarks, something that i'm sure we have all heard privately from the kind of men and women who don't want to politicize their former national security agencies, but this scathing indictment of his lack of fitness, what did you think of that presentation last night? >> well, nicole, have a friday, by the way. i thought that i have covered -- -- in that he is not oprah winfrey. and he's not bill clinton. he's not barack obama, he's not michelle obama. he is not a high wattage start. i think that was by intent. i think there was a reason, a very good reason. why we didn't see beyonci or taylor swift last night. it was post be a night last night that was going to focus on kamala