we are talking with helma minenez of catholic charities. you just told us about a vision of engaging bay area corporations, businesses, entrepreneurs and so forth in the catholic charities. they have talent. they have creativity and innovation -- innovative skills. i'm sure they could be of help. i am not a businessman myself but i went to your website. there were massive amounts of good information on the return on investment for catholic charities. the impact of the programs. it seems that you spend a good deal of time studying the impact of the program and assessing what works and figuring out what doesn't work. it was cut -- quite impressive impressive. >> we do have a tremendous return on investments. i will give you an example. when a mother is homeless and comes to one of our shelters and delivers her baby, the last thing you want is to put her back on the street with the baby. the return on the investment is that we empower that woman by providing her with the resources -- the access to the training and workforce she otherwise would