sheriff hennessy has requested to the state and the feds, and he's awaiting a response. so at some point we might not be in s-comm city but i think it is important that we continue to analyze this. plabe the next item should be on the ken sent calendar so we save some time. president marshall: commissioner. commissioner hammer: commissioner chan, obviously you are an expert in this area. so i want to ask you briefly. the numbers we got so far, do they match what you expect snd are there surprises here? >> the nubbeds at s-comm natalie are really quite different. -- the numbers at s-comm nagsly are real -- nationally are really quite different. i think there is a higher number at the national level because it has been implemented for a longer period of time. i think i.c.e. is well aware that we're monitoring them. if we continue to closely monitor, i have a feeling that san francisco numbers might be different because of that. this is a program i.c.e. is getting funding from. they want to make it look good. the national numbers make it look really bad, frankly. san franci

hennessy. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. yesterday mr. fuld argued it was unsupported by the reality of the day. we heard the same thing from bear stearns that there found was financially healthy and they're what down by whispers and rumors and unsubstantiated fun. i believe i heard you just say it that lehman is probably insolvent. in your view, did lehman and they are fail all my because of unjustified the quiddity runs or were there also general solvency problems that arose? >> so as i said before, one of the reasons the ceos also coincided with there is a general planet. it was obviously general financial crisis that will put the companies under extraordinary strain. that being said, there were certainly a hierarchy and weaker companies were certainly the first to feel pressure. the bear stearns is widely viewed to be the weakest of the investment banks and lehman was widely viewed to be the second weakest and so on. and they were clearly lost his in the quiddity issues that those companies. in particular, in the case of lehman, they

hennessy. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. yesterday mr. fuld argued it was unsupported by the reality of the day. we heard the same thing from bear stearns that there found was financially healthy and they're what down by whispers and rumors and unsubstantiated fun. i believe i heard you just say it that lehman is probably insolvent. in your view, did lehman and they are fail all my because of unjustified the quiddity runs or were there also general solvency problems that arose? >> so as i said before, one of the reasons the ceos also coincided with there is a general planet. it was obviously general financial crisis that will put the companies under extraordinary strain. that being said, there were certainly a hierarchy and weaker companies were certainly the first to feel pressure. the bear stearns is widely viewed to be the weakest of the investment banks and lehman was widely viewed to be the second weakest and so on. and they were clearly lost his in the quiddity issues that those companies. in particular, in the case of lehman, they

we were getting into early that would've been alone a bridge to nowhere and i think commissioner hennessy had a framing of that that was very elegant and right. and we would've been lending lending to the parent in the face of a run and it was inconsistent with the contingency plan for executing after plan a fellow part in the confined in a merger. >> the fact you have a different contingency plan can't be a factor. the important question has to be, if the institution is insolvent and mr. fold has said i haven't heard anyone contradict that yet. if it was solvent, then it doesn't matter what other plans he had in mind. it seems that the board could have adopted a resolution that made lehman brothers eligible for the use of 13-3, that is the parent company eligible for the use of 13-3. was that only the absence of a board resolution that stopped that from being accessible to lehman brothers, the holding company? >> now, commissioner. if i like that kind of bridge alone was a virgin lunch nowhere because the management of lehman had worked, i think, as diligely as pssible to find a solution

hennessy. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. yesterday mr. fuld argued it was unsupported by the reality of the day. we heard the same thing from bear stearns that there found was financially healthy and they're what down by whispers and rumors and unsubstantiated fun. i believe i heard you just say it that lehman is probably insolvent. in your view, did lehman and they are fail all my because of unjustified the quiddity runs or were there also general solvency problems that arose? >> so as i said before, one of the reasons the ceos also coincided with there is a general planet. it was obviously general financial crisis that will put the companies under extraordinary strain. that being said, there were certainly a hierarchy and weaker companies were certainly the first to feel pressure. the bear stearns is widely viewed to be the weakest of the investment banks and lehman was widely viewed to be the second weakest and so on. and they were clearly lost his in the quiddity issues that those companies. in particular, in the case of lehman, they