charlie: bill ackman believes herbalife is going to zero.yramid scheme or you run out of distributors because nobody likes the product. a barely 4%. it went down right on our report. liz: you just got off the phone with a few people. charlie: coming out at the robin hood conference. they tout their calls and raise money for charity. we understand he is tweaking his presentation. it will be on herbalife, but he will come out with eyewitness testimonials, this is what they fear at herbalife, this will be disgruntled employees were disgruntled distributors basically trying to backup his claim that this is a pyramid scheme. you have a company with distributors and the distributors pay the company money. when the distributors cannot sell the product anymore the distributors believe in the company implodes. that is essentially what he is saying. they don't sell enough of this to justify the valuation. liz: the company has been in existence for decades and decades. charlie: and making money. they had that incident they got caught for insider tradin

herbalife, another one that has been attacked.activist investor as well, seeing a pop today, 6.5% as charlie gasparino tweeted they may be working on a possible buyout of the company. who are these people? charlie is coming in. big money, fast money, smart money. he has the story exclusively next. plus the auto industry booming from having been down for the count. we take you live to the l.a. auto show to give you a perspective like nobody else can show you. except jeff flock. see how the automakers are revving up the industry. my mantra? family first. but with less energy, moodiness, and a low sex drive, i saw my doctor. a blood test showed it was low testosterone, not age. talked about axiron. the only underarm low t treatment that can restore t levels to rmal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than8 or men with prostate or breast caer. and children should avoido are contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puber in children or cnges in body hair or increased acne in wome

it has nothing to do with herbalife.audit comes back clean and there are no allegations by anyone that says it won't they will try to unlock the value in this very inexpensive company. who's right? is herbalife a fraudulent scheme or cheap stock being kept under a cloud by a hedge fund that wants to make the quarterly numbers? this is simple. if ackman can convince them it is a fraud maybe he can get the business shut down, and he wins. but the company gets 80% of sales from overseas. if they miss the numbers he could win. not going to zero with that. if it gets a clean bill of health the bulls make a killing. same thing in green mountain coffee. it's been brought to my attention by herb greenberg. the bulls insist that green mountain's business is growing and the bears say it is a step from the grave. the fundamentals seem to have turned dramatically in favor for the better. green mountain announced a billion dollar buy back and a decent dividend. like hain the bears say the earnings were low quality while the dividend

adam: what is going on with herbalife. >> what is going on with herbalife, ackman will give a speech conference, unveil new information, new theoretically negative information. he is a short seller. he is betting it will go down. behind the scenes there are still that like the stock. george soros likes it. this guy bill stair ritz a long time investor. we don't talk about him, a very sophisticated investor. upped his stake to 6.4%. he has been around a little bit. he looks like a serial guy anyway? lori: you're the one with blood on you. >> calm down. speculation on the street, speculation he is approaching other investors. he loves the company. i know for a fact that he loves the company through other sources. he would love to own the company, there is no doubt about that i know that what we hear and stir ritz has not called us back and potentially approaching other investors to take it right private what are the other investors? one name i've heard and not confirmed but throwing the out there and this is good, just sis gossip. adam: this moves the street sometimes. >> the singapore

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but herbalife, remember, up 86% this year. that trade is definitely not going ackman's way up until now. we'll see if anything changes that. >> thanks. the stock guys, have been hanging out in the upper 60s for a couple of months minimum. people are wonder what ackman has up his sleeve, he's got another presentation coming. >> i wouldn't be too worried. after the first presentation, trade down and the stock received double. >> fair. the stock got creamed. the day that he -- >> he traded down. >> it took a while. >> he was the only visible voice on it at the time. then you came out with others that have a stronger voice and multiple people. to me, a story, he may be right ultimately. right now it's an old trade, people don't want to be in a post icahn trade we saw what happened to netflix. i don't think it's coincidental, traded down. >> did the retail investor buy or sell major stocks in october? should you follow suit. nicole sherrod is here on set revealing that answer and more. >>> coming up in "power lunch," top of the hou

herbalife, even comments from dan loeb regarding herbalife and bill ackman a bit. >> we did. he talked in some detail, actually. andrew asked him, was it personal? was he going long herbalife, because he was trying to cause pain to bill ackman, who is reported to be sort of a frenemy, if not an out-right enemy, he said, look, nothing personal. he did some due diligence. he took time from a winter holiday and came from mexico to meet with company management last winter. he is bullish. he doesn't think it's a pyramid scheme. he had a price target of 55 to $70. and he said usually they go out a year, but in this case, the stock made good money, so they got out of it in the february, march area. you reported that at the time. so you remember that. >> i do. >> but he basically said, look, no pump-and-dump here. this was a good, old-fashioned investment idea. >> he addressed comments by george clooney, as well. people are waiting to hear, if anything, he would say about that. remember, it was clooney who sort of, you know, verbally attacked loeb after the sony letters were written

he has been calling herbalife a pyramid scheme. herbalife repeatedly denied it does exactly that.are watching herbalife today. they have been sneaking back. four .25% to the upside. up 116%. back to you. ashley: nicole, thank you very much. as we said at the top of the show, how annoying would be in? the fcc is proposing cell phone conversations being allowed on planes. please tweet us. you already have. your responses will be at the bottom of the screen. cheryl: joining us with her take, department of transportation, mary schiavo. you think the airlines are so good at this would find a way to generate revenue off such of a proposal? >> absolutely. the airlines will generate revenue from both sides of the equation. they will have a quiet zone as they already do on some airlines. you can pay extra to get a seat in the quiet part of the plane. that airline is banning children. there will be a section of the plane for phones and a section of the planes for no phones and each will carry a fee with it. vast rest of us will be in the middle somewhere. i think it will be a money-making o

one on herbalife. this goes to the issue of whether you like a good fight.eople think of it as a personal issue, you and bill and the back story and all that. >> it's not personal at all. i haven't owned herbalife, i can't remember when we sold our position -- >> you didn't take any great joy in the personal piece of it. people were seeing comments you were making on bloomberg terminal and other things. >> that's silly banter that might come as a shock to you but hedge fund managers do engage in silly banter with each other from time to time. >> let me ask you about yahoo!. you're no longer on the board of the company. >> no. >> so you can speak freely if you couldn't be. when you made the investment, you said you did so because you thought there were more underlying value. at the time i can't imagine you thought you would get marissa meyer to come. when you bought into it, there was roomors the whole company was going to be get broken up. how much of the investment thesis was about changing out management and how much was the situation that moved into you b

so ackman went on stage, presented on herbalife. the stoikz up. up 5% right now, perhaps a little bit of the market saying, okay, that's the best you got? we're waiting for it. that's what we had from you. that's what the stock is doing. we were able to speak with a couple hedge fund managers you don't hear from all that often, alex sasserdote of whale rock with us, made his top pick today, soft bank was interesting, because dan loeb was in that ballroom down the hallway yesterday and said he has a stake in soft bank. mr. sasserdotes it for the alibaba play and mentioned amazon, he's a tech investor and said it's because of the cloud play. listen to what he had to say about amzn. >> amazon has the best management team in the world and any time they start to make profits, bezos has been able to find amazing new businesses to invest in. you have to peel back the onion to see what the core u.s. e-commerce business is earning. we think they're losing a huge amount in china depressing profits which makes the pe look high. >> he's up 41% this year, net

bill ackman is down half a billion on his herbalife short. he's sticking with it. be with us giving me his insight. we'll talk about roaring markets and how he's putting client money to work. >>> are bitcoin going mainstream? it's gaining wider acceptance but should it be? the american dream is of a better future, a confident retirement. those dreams, there's just no way we're going to let them die. ♪ ♪ like they helped millions of others. by listening. planning. working one on one. that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. that's how ameriprise puts more within reach. ♪ ♪ for all those who sleep too hot or too cool, now there's a solution. sleep number dual temp the revolutionary temperature-balancing layer with active air technology that works on any mattress brand including yours. it's only at a sleep number store where this holiday season, the hottest sleep innovations make the coolest gifts - including sleep number dual temp. discover dual temp at one of our 425 sleep number stores nationwide. sleep number. comfort individualized

and has been waging a public debate with fellow activist investor carl icahn over the viability of herbalife. ackman labels the nutrition supplment company a pyramid scheme, which the company denies. traders are well aware of the importance of staying ahead of the curve -- scott bauer of trading advantage joins us with ideas on buying and selling retail stock ahead of black firday. good morning scott. > > good morning angie. > > we have an unusual situation here. we have thanksgiving and hanukkah happening at the same time. how will that affect trading? > > you know this is the first time ever and it's not going to happen again and i do think we are going to lose retail sales in that first week or so after thanksgiving when all the black friday sales come out unless some of these retailers-- which i think may happen-- may actually-- a week ahead of thanksgiving -- come out with some early bird specials let's say because that's a significant part of the market of people shopping for hanukkah that normally would be during the month of december that now really has to be mid to late november. >

but it is worth keeping an eye open for herbalife. >> look up stiritz. google him.at investor. he hasn't lost his edge. >> that was in the 90s. >> it was when you were first looking at dex in the conference calls. >> that was the 80s. >> they didn't have dex. they didn't even have this internet thing when i started. >> they didn't, did they? >> no, i was on a typewriter. >> we called you hilly johnson. >> howard hawks, his girl friday, carey grant. >> hill green, often compared with you. >> i like that comparison, thank you. first time it will ever be made. >> john garfield -- >> wait, it's me. have i to send it to rick santelli. you're over at the cme in chicago, mr. santelli. >> just watched a garfield movie and a george raff movie the other night. if you really want to see trading that isn't moving out average, fixed income is your market. it doesn't mean it's not hitting all the major technical levels. notice the double top intra days on these yields. big retracement. we've gone over that. if you're looking for so often treasuries, the curve steepening, you can

herbalife, maybe they're betting and making money.mpanies are doing incredibly well and meantime you have ross stores, they don't have the right assortment, they're not interested in people. footwear is selling active wear. ross stores, i listen to the conference call and i think they're saying maybe we don't have it. you have to be careful when you buy retail. target. that was a very disappointing quarter. i had nothing to recommend target. nothing. >> with all that in mind, what are you going to cover on "mad" tonight? >> we're going back, i am doing an order of retail. i'm saying here's who doesn't have it anymore or at least they can't figure it out and here's who does have it. i also have a company that is trying very hard to move the web like splunk, it's the original woman breaking all the barriers down. she has bad things to say about two major tech companies. i want people to listen. they may own them and she's gunning for them and she will get their man. she's the best. >> we'll see you tonight at 6:00 p.m. eastern time. let

ter after the break herb green burg will talk about a stock he had been raising a red flag on, not herbalifetock chart up. does anybody know what this is? lesson in tv is never ever, ever, read the teleprom ter. we're back after this. [ male announcer ] what if a small company became big business overnight? ♪ like, really big... then expanded? ♪ or their new product tanked? ♪ or not? what if they embrace new technology instead? ♪ imagine a company's future with the future of trading. company profile. a research tool on thinkorswim. from td ameritrade. a research tool on thinkorswim. i have obligations. cute tobligations, but obligations.g. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio. what i really need is sleep. introducing the ishares core, building blocks for the heart of your portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. >>> it

. >> and herbalife is getting a nice boost today as well with the ceo announcing an increased stake inpany. herb, i would like to bring you in on this one. we're talking about bill sterits and seems as if he wants to personally weigh in on the fight. >> he says he's analyzed the business model, sees -- he believes in the business model. here's what you have to think about. this is a company that is still waiting for its reaudit. auditor issue. they expect that done by the end of the fourth quarter. we're in the fourth quarter. cfo -- >> new auditors. >> the cfo in the last conference call said he sort of hedged himself, done when it's done. weight important, will there be anything in this audit where the new auditors are pushed to say we want it to know how much of this product is sold at retail, what is retail, things things like that still matter. a lot of chatter that the company will end up doing an lbo. if it does, i will still stand by this in terms of saying it's in the mlm industry, even if it goes private -- whoever finances it, will then have to deal with the issue of still t

bill ackman is down $500 million on his herbalife short position. he's not down yet. we'll ask a top investor when you need to say enough is enough and admit you were wrong. >>> in the markets, let's take a look at wherer with we stand. the dow jones industrial average up 0.25%. we have been trending higher. sitting around the highs of the day. nasdaq composite showing gains. technology doing well with the nasdaq up 20 points. at 3990. the s&p 500 looks like this. gain on the session of 7.5 on the standard & poor's. joining us on "closing bell exchange," ann, michael yoshikami, rich peterson, and mike tepper from strategic wealth partners. hi, everybody. good to have you on the program. thanks for joining us. >> thanks marks . >> market at all time highs even though the whole idea of new tapering has entered the conversation. would you put new money to work here? >> i think the market is pretty fairly valued. we have -- we say upside of 10% over the next 12 months. doesn't mean necessarily it's going to get there. i do think there are still some values and we're findi

>> if you think the market is high, you sell herbalife, you sell it. >> but herbalife and apple -- >> holdings. you buy puts, short futures and sell. >> yesterday people were selling facebook perhaps more than other names. >> some publication didn't like it. on the west coast you hear facebook being a primary way of being in touch with your customers and people throwing money at facebook because they feel it's the way to be able to reach the next generation. they didn't feel that way about twitter. twitter there were people on the fence. they love looking at what people are saying on twitter about their product but nobody's talking about giving twitter money yet. i know people are because they have revenues pu bu in terms of being in touch with your customer and building your brand, people favor facebook over twitter. >> the dow is up about 20. let's get to pisani on the floor. >> good morning, guys. we're up there once again right at 16,000. people are talking about overbought conditions and signs of overbought conditions and exuberance, what i've seen here is a lack of selling, belo

the two have engaged in a public battle over herbalife. says, quote, what we don't do is exactly what ackman does do. we have an idea, but we don't push it. >> ross. always good to hear from mr. icahn. >> it is always good. and he stirred up another hornet's nest, lt. seema, thanks for that. >>> the oecd is cutting its global growth forecast, citing expectations for the fed's taper turmoil and weakness b in emerging markets. stocks in europe are down, investors waiting for ben bernanke's speech at 7:00 p.m. eastern time tonight. billionaire investor carl icahn sounding alarm bells by saying the good times could soon be over. >>> still to come, home depot is set to report third quarter results in just around 10 minutes. the u.s. housing market has been reboundsing. but there's head winds there. so will that knot the sector? we'll get some insight, next. [ male announcer ] this store knows how to handle a saturday crowd. ♪ [ male announcer ] the parking lot helps by letting us know who's coming. the carts keep everyone on the right track. th

also, tiger consumer management reducing its herbalife stake and tiger opened a large stake in pandora2.9 million shares. we've got a lot to do here. and then we have stan -- every time i look at it it gives me trouble. i like just stan. that's what duquesne really is. he closed out of his position of procter & gamble, selling 566,300 shares in that. buying 79,000 shares of herb ba live. >>> joining us is david steiner, ceo of waste management. >> good morning. >> so many neat things. because running your business you don't just pick up trash, obviously. you've got to think about recycling, regulations, you've got to think about obama care, taxes, all of this stuff. >> you make it sound hard. >> it is hard. and you need a good ceo. i know wayne and how he came up with it. i don't even think he went to college. bought a used garbage truck and realized if i could try someone for dumpster every week it's good business. here's what i want to ask you, though, as a proxy for the economy, there's a couple things. there's people with boxes. it's such a big number you can see the slightest chan

we wait for bill ackman to renew his attack on herbalife today.