ambassador herbst, do _ the escalation now. ambassador herbst, do you _ the escalation now.ng to trade? t coming, they have something to trade? ., �* ., ., , coming, they have something to trade? ., trade? i don't have any doubt that isiden — trade? i don't have any doubt that biden wants _ trade? i don't have any doubt that biden wants to _ trade? i don't have any doubt that biden wants to do i trade? i don't have any doubt that biden wants to do as i trade? i don't have any doubt i that biden wants to do as much as he _ that biden wants to do as much as he can — that biden wants to do as much as he can for ukraine within the — as he can for ukraine within the framework that he has set up. the framework that he has set up and — the framework that he has set up. and so he deserves credit for the — up. and so he deserves credit for the substantial aid the united _ for the substantial aid the united states has provided to ukraine, _ united states has provided to ukraine, for railing nato and partners _ ukraine, for railing nato and partners in support of ukraine, and again— pa

our discussion today will be moderated by ambassador john herbst, former ambassador to ukraine, formerdor to uzbekistan and senior director of the atlantic council's eurasia center, whose teams have taken a lead on this set of issues. for those in the audience and those watching virtually, submit your questions to askac.org, and we'll get to your questions later in the show. i'm now honored to welcome chairman mccaul and turn to ambassador herbst to start this important atlantic council front page, this inaugural atlantic council front page conversation at new headquarters to you. john, over to you. >> fred, thank you very much. and chairman mccaul, thank you for being here. as fred said, you have been staunch in defending american interests as we deal with an aggressive russia and aggressive china and north korea and iran. okay. moscow's been waging this war in ukraine for ten years. their big invasion began almost three years ago. the u.s. has provided substantial military and economic support to ukraine since the big invasion. what are the u.s. interests in this war, and why are we

joining me now to talk about this and other matters as they pertain to ukraine is john herbst. he was ambassador to ukraine under president george w. bush he's also senior director for the atlantic council's eurasia center mr. ambassador, thank you so much for joining us. we appreciate it. what do you make of we're just getting this in. so forgive me for throwing you a curveball right off the bat here, but it sounds as though donald trump is throwing a bit of a curveball for his nato ambassador, matt whitaker. what do you think? >> well it it hasn't happened. maybe in 30 plus years, but there have been times in the past when the president has selected a distinguished person who had no major foreign policy experience to be our ambassador to nato for example, a very young don rumsfeld was named ambassador to nato in the early 70s by richard nixon before that, david m kennedy was also named ambassador to nato by by nixon. so we've seen such appointments before. but it is true over the last 20 or plus years, our ambassadors to nato have had significant national security experience

joining me live is john herbst, former us ambassador to ukraine and senior director of the atlantic council'sow cruise missiles fired into russian territory for the first time by ukraine. that comes after us made atacms were used by ukraine. the us also offering landmines, is this now a kitchen sink strategy for ukraine? i think that what we are seeing is a continuation of biotin policies. as weapons which have been appropriated funds of reference appropriated and become available, the by the administration has been shipping them to ukraine and he doesn't have much left and his term and he would like to get out as much as he can and that is what we're seeing. figs out as much as he can and that is what we're seeing.— is what we're seeing. as we heard in _ is what we're seeing. as we heard in that _ is what we're seeing. as we heard in that report, - is what we're seeing. as we | heard in that report, they've had these weapons theyjust have not been able to use them against russia and russian territory and that seems to be the big difference here. doesn't it?— doesn't it? it's also consistent -