the heritage foundation is leading anything to stop it from getting done. this is where the white supremacist party comes in. dillon looked up the credentials for those who wrote the study for the heritage and found out one did his doctoral on immigration policy and how we should shape our immigration policy to account for the fact latinos are so dumb as a race. i'm only barely paraphrasing describing immigrants as having an iq substantially lower than the white population. immigrants living in the u.s. today don't have the same level of cognitive ability as natives. no one knows whether hispanics will ever reach iq parity with whites but that they will have low iq children and grandchildren is difficult to argue against. not only are latinos intellectually inferior to white whitebut they proceed. disgusting. after that was reported the heritage foundation run by former senator republican jim demint, tried to distance themselves from this guy they had write the report and la meanted they were focusing on the dissertation an not this study. it does not reflec

and their vp, the heritage foundation, the heritage foundation's vp of communications mike gonzalez put up a blog post saying dr. richwine did not shape the methodology or the policy recommendations in the heritage paper. the dissertation was written while dr. richwine was a student at harvard supervised and approved by the committee of respected scholars. its finding do not reflect the position of the heritage foundation or the conclusions of our study. well said. that mike gonzalez sounds pretty smart. he's probably adopted. now heritage-- (applause) heritage here, heritage is saying they find no credence in richwine's dissertation. which they are careful to point out was supervised and approved by respected scholars at harvard. in other words, richwine's paper which says that today's hispanic immigrants have low iqs and will for several generations dooming them to failure is reprehensible. and had no influence on this paper cowritten by the same guy which says hispanic immigrants are a burdensome underclass and will be for several generations because they're doomed to failure. becaus

when the heritage foundation, the leader conservative think tank was considering hiring him, his most recent public output. the thing he was doing on-line the before heritage hired him is writing about the inferiority of latinos as a group and this is the world where the heritage foundation went to to find an author of their study of immigration reform and turns out their study concludes it is a terrible idea to reform immigration because these immigrants and you know who we mane, these immigrants and their children and grandchildren and everybody in their blood line they are low achieving parasites who will feed on the native born population and that will be expensive. not at all fiscally responsible. we learned all of this today about the character of the opposition to immigration reform in this country. we learned about who's leading the republican charge against immigration reform on the day that immigration reform finally is introduced in the senate. what do those revelations tell us about what happens next on this very, very, very important issue? joining us is a pulitzer prize

the heritage foundation thought the study could sink the heritage bill, that is, until republicans whohe bill summarily conducted the study calling it politically and wild ld overblown, but it turned out the most controversial thing about the study wasn't the number, it was the past writings of the co-author of jason ridgewine. the wonkblog actually went back and pulled ridgewine's diss dissertation which said the average iq of immigrants in the united states is substantially lower than that of the white native population. it's a lack of socioeconomic assimilation among low-iq immigrant groups, more underclass behavior, less social trust, and nn kraan increase in proportion of unskilled workers in the american labor market. he has decided that immigrants are just not as smart as whites, but the fact they will have b h low-iq children and grandchildren is difficult to argue against. he wrote in 2010 for alternativeright.com in an article entitled model minority, question mark, he pushed back the notion that they have pushed up the crime rate of hispanics. he said hispanics are substanti

it is not difficult to see where the basic idea where the new study from the heritage foundation came from. when asked about the authorship of their new immigration report and his past dabbling in, well, what seems like eugenics, the foundation put out a statement, quote, dr. richwine provided quantitative support to the lead author. so, don't worry, our report is still totally legit. he just did the counting part. he just did the quantitative part. so, mark sanford, welcome to washington, where you amazingly do not have the most terrifying past. and immigration reform with enemies like these, i think you might be just fine. back with us now is frank rich, "new york magazine" writer at large. frank, thank you for sticking with us. >> glad to do it, of course. >> the heritage foundation is operating here more as a political operation than as a think tank operation, which should not be that surprising. >> of course. >> the racial ties of the authorship of this report to current politics, are those not going to be a big deal, or does this still have the power to shock? >> it does still h

the heritage foundation is not supposed to be a campaigning foundation, they are supposed to deal with policy, facts, figures, and complex data sets that can't just appear to be killing immigration with straight-up politics, but use something that looks like research, something that looks like a study of some kind. this is the heritage foundation's brand spanking new study on immigration reform, a study on immigrants, really. looks very serious and has a boring name and everything. the fiscal cost of unlawful immigrants and amnesty to the u.s. taxpayer. cracking it open to look at the report's conclusions, we see that immigrants are always on welfare, they just take, take, take, take, take. immigrants are low achieving and uneducated and won't contribute to the economy in any way because they have a serious case of the poors. based on those conclusions and math so fuzzy it might as well be television static, the heritage foundation assigned a random number to what would be the cost of immigration reform. guess what, it would cost a bazillion dollars. $6 trillion is what they came up wi

you know who favors bonusing the federal -- the heritage foundation. >> you are an agent of the heritage foundation? >> i have been accued of many. from james, the senior economist. we should shift the distribution from base pay to bonus. >> mike, lois learner who was in charge of the tax exemption got a $42,000 bonus or several bonuses adding up to 42,000. show gave on the a bunch of information that was not true. and her predecessor got bonuses and all told $92 million in bonuses went out to irs officials, isn't that wrong? >> you are trying to get us audited on the show today. >> they got your number and mine. i agree with the heritage foundation, in general government employee play should shift to bonus with strict performance metric and they would perform better. as far as the irs, they don't deserve it. >> i am looking around for and kind of metrics in which someone behaved well and i don't see it. >> we are not in a market and there is not a competiter for those in government and so what are they judged on? on the number of conservative groups that they muzzle? >> i like the make

the heritage foundation has been discredited a little bit. but they do represent some of the opposition here. and there is an issue on how much this will cost the social programs. so it is one of the concerns here. >> jeff, you mentioned the house being a problem. it is amazing that you do have these major, major conservative groups coming in for this thing. one thing that always interests me about house members they look to their district and -- that's the problem, isn't it? >> it is. because all of of them are standing for re-election in 2014. so it's really a mixed bag and not necessarily republican and democrat and sometimes it's urban and rural f you're a republican representing a suburban district probably, you're probably -- more inclined to vote for this. but also farming interests. there are a lot of people in the ag community who want this reform. so it does not divide how things normally do. if the chamber of commerce really goes head on here, and pushes some of those people, i think it's an open question if speaker boehner and som

heritage foundation has gotten a lot of kritd sivm. but what they understand immigration reform as potential that improves the quality of the llbor force, allows us to meet some of our growth needs. >> lou: robert rector and it is your response to his response. here is robert. >> egan has numbers, in fact of what you are concluding in your report, he says it would reduce the deficit by $2.5 trillion. >> i spent six months preparing this report. it's about 80 pages long. the appendix it describes the methodology of what i did is over 30 pages long. anybody can look in every detail of my analysis. mr. egan doesn't have a study or report. he has a press release about a study he might do. he has provided about a page and a half of information. >> lou: how do you respond to that? >> well, i say brevity is the soul of wit. what we looked at was the difference between the typical immigration scenario and what the census called a high scenario. we reported the facts on labor force participation, higher than native born, business start-ups by i

aei and heritage foundation are the two biggest conservative think tanks. is employer until today, aei was his previous employer. aei today tried to distance themselves from the guy with whut supremacist links. they know nothing about his controversial views, came highly recommended and that's the reason they hired him. the problem aei has, their basic claims they had no idea his ideas were so creepy, while he was working for them at an aei sponsored event, broadcast on cspan, in case you were at work and had to watch it on tv, whiem he was working for aei, wasn't hiding his white supremacist delight under a bushel. >> race is differ in all sorts of ways, probably the most important way is in iq. decades of psycho metric testing indicated at least in america you have jews with the highest average iq, followed by east asians, then nonjewish whites, hispanics, then blacks. these are real differences, they're not going away tomorrow. for that reason we have to address them in our immigration discussions and debates. >> i love when the camera turns to david frum

. >> i want to talk to you about the heritage foundation using the lobbying arm heritage for american action foundation sent a letter to republicans on the hill asking them not to debate controversial legislation while the controversies are being investigated. do you think house republicans are going to follow that advice? >> i can only speak for myself. i'm not led by any particular organization. i represent 750,000 people in the sixth district of tennessee. and that's what i'm led by. we are going to do the right thing. we are going to get to the boughtp of this a bottom of this and we are going to get answers so we can assure the american people that we can gain trust. >> certainly is about trust to make sure they are operating fairly and efficiently. many thanks for stepping out to talk to me. i appreciate it. >>> we are keeping an eye on the events on capitol hill underway right now. the house ways and means committee investigating how the irs screened conservative groups. we are back after this. we gave people a sticker and had them show us. we learned a lot of us have known som

heritage foundation is allowing 11 illegal immigrants a pathway would cost over $6 trillion. conservative economists, however are taking the heritage foundation on and arguing with the report sayi it doesn't take into account t economic benefis of immigration reform. today, we're bringing you both sides of that debate. we'll be tking to co-author o heritage study, a former congressional budget office and president of the american action foruand he'll tell us why immigration reform will invigorate our economy. also cofounder of one of the groups on the irs enemies' list. jenny beth harten. the author of a new study, robert rector, it's deja-vu all over again. we can go back to 2007, kennedy, mccain and the heritage foundation with a study and the number was $2.5 trillion. >> right. $2.7 trillion. the analysis i did and everybody agreed with was only the retirement costs now i'm doing pre-retirement and post retirement and government is 40% big are. it's unbelievable and that is why this bill is ining to cost a fortune. >> lou: i have not thought of it the way you cast it betwe

it truly was. >> john: heritage foundation never want republicans to win elections again? they did an immigration report back in 2006. even the writer goes this goes way too far. under the stewardship of demint, have they moved off the margins? >> look, you can almost admire them in the sense if they were discounting the input or the impact on elective matters, if they said we're going to be purists and tell it as we see it. whatever happens politically happens. i can respect that. but this was just shotty -- you can't even say shotty work. it was insane. there's only one way to interpret this. this is coming from every real conservative in america. and they are all saying the same thing. this was a press release for jim demint. >> john: it seems like we're in this world where you have half of our republican friends wanting immigration reform because they know you can't get the white house without the latino vote. the other half who doesn't want immigration reform and democrats sitting back and laughing. that may be entertaining for progressives but isn't a recipe for noth

with the heritage foundation.ve a couple minutes left ear, and i wanted to clarify something i said earlier. we paused briefly for the house to come in, then they recessed because they will be reconvening at 10:30 a.m. for a joint meeting of congress. i called it a joint session. it is an important distinction. they meetings typically would hear from heads of state. it is to hear from south korea 's president, president park. with that, let me get in one last phone call for you, derek morgan. rob in north carolina, a republican. caller: you're very well spoken in addition to being very well informed about this amnesty legislation. the plain and simple truth behind the democrats' support of it is to expand the democratic party and capture votes, just like the useful idiots who are low information voters, and all the rest of us who are hard-working taxpayers who have to foot the bill. if it was not for the heritage foundation -- if the heritage foundation, congress was informed that her by the heritage foundation, t

. >> reed, meantime they're trying at the heritage foundation to make this an economic argument. as we know, a similar study in 2007 helped kill immigration reform then. here's what the "washington post" editorial board wrote. what heritage really objects to is redistributive government programs which one of the stud's's authors termed america's cradle to grave welfare state. even if folks disagree with the number and it's a 50-year projection on that number, nevertheless, could the economic argument work for those who want to derail immigration reform? >> i think there are plenty of folk who is do want to derail this particular measure. they want something stronger. they're not comfortable with the path to citizenship. and this is a part of the evolution of the republican party. we're seeing a sort of polling of both sides here. in one side, you've got the -- i won't say moderates because it's hard to characterize marco rubio as a moderate, but the pro immigration reform advocates in the senate and around washington, d.c., including people like grover norquist, doug holtz-eakin,

the heritage foundation is out with a report saying that immigration reform could cost $6.3 trillion.o rubio, jeff flake, paul ryan, a lot of folks on the republican side said, wait, that's a little bit absurd, that's over the line. take me through this number. if paul ryan is hitting back on this number, it can't be too factual. >> i'll take you through that number. let me take you through three other numbers. i heard three numbers. 844 pages, 300 amendments, which are designed to gut the bill. i think marco rubio is disingenuous there. the cost of the heritage substituty, a misleestudy. that number is more determinative of where this is going than any other number we have said so far. so let's just get that straight. >> biggest number on the table. >> biggest number. on the trillions, you can get that -- heritage foundation claims this is the cost to our society of this bill, making folks who are here legal, with a path to citizenship. you only get that number if you only count the cost and you leave out most of the benefits. and what is interesting is not only that they're leaving

it was someone who went on the heritage foundation on radio today. take a listen. >> are you standing by his premise? are you standing by his premise hispanics have low iq? >> no. that's not our position. that's not my position obviously. >> why is he an author in your study? >> he did the number crunching, as i said -- >> you have someone who is a racist obviously, right, who is part of your study, you're accepting his work, therefore you're accepting his intellectual framework, right? >> we did not accept the work he did before arriving here. >> are you going to fire him or are you standing by him? >> we really -- you know, i don't want to comment on that. >> janet, this has really blown up in a fascinating way and causing some problems right now. >> it should. we all want to make sure when folks are using these types of -- this type of thinking, when you see eugenics start to surface, as part of an author who was part of this report and see that in his background, it does make you question why would the heritage foundation not renounce that part o

case and point, a new study from the heritage foundation. an act of citizenship for 11 million illegal immigrants would cost u.s. taxpayers $6.3 trillion. the study is no immigrants over a period of 50 years would benefit from entitlement programs including health, education, social security and others amounting to $9 trillion while contributing to only 3 trillion to the u.s. economy. thus the $3.63 trillion gap. the former u.s. senator from south carolina and head of the heritage foundation. >> the average unlawful immigrant house hold will receive nearly $3 in benefits for every 1 dollar in taxes paid under the provision. >> heritage's price tag was immediately blasted by republican senator rubio who attacked the legitimacy of the study. >> the study is based over 50 years and estimates the number of people counted in the system and includes the 4 million kids living here now and a quarter of the cost are for traffic and police and firefighters and public services already provided and another quarter of the cost, if they're not reformed wo

i'm sorry about that, heritage foundation. thank you very much.merican action forum, but, i want to bring in somebody else, dean garfield, he's president and ceo of the information technology industry council. that council represents facebook, google, intel, many other tech companies who are getting heavily involved in the immigration. you are on the hill. you are lobbying every day for reform. first question, will the heritage foundation study do you any harm? >> i don't think so. this is a once in a generation opportunity to align immigration, our immigration system with our economic best interest as as has been pointed out, the study doesn't really cover the positive economic impact of high skill immigration. so i don't believe it will. >> i mean, you are focused a lot on the h 1 b, correct me if i'm wrong. are you focused on the students graduating from our universities, letting them stay and the limits to both are being raised. is that the principle focus of what facebook and google and intelliand the others -- intel and the others are fighti

jim demint's heritage foundation claims immigration reform will cost $6.3 trillion. well, that's a lot. heritage's fuzzy math, you might call it, is being challenged. it's being used by the hard right to kill reform which a lot of republicans think is needed to save their party. so they'd like to get it off their back, but yet they're trying to kill it. you figure. >>> also, tomorrow's election day in south carolina. looks like we could see a big turnaround in that race. a ppp poll has mark sanford up now by one point over elizabeth colbert. by the way, that's a ten-point net pickup in sanford's favorite in just two weeks. so he might just win tomorrow. who knows. >>> and our series "the unkindest cut" on the real damage those sequestration cuts are actually doing. tonight, kids being turned away from head start. a great american program. is this a smart way to save money? hurting kids? >>> finally, let me finish tonight with the definition of true immigration reform. this is "hardball." the place for politics. >>> wow, gabrielle giffords received the john f. kennedy

we had jim making the rounds headin heading up the heritage foundation.oes that conflict with what moderate republicans would like to see when it comes to an immigration reform bill and having fingerprints on something that's productive and seen as a welcoming message to latino voters coming up. >> i think it will be very hard. it's not just the message of the right wing think tanks fueling the conservative orthodoxy here. it's also policies. you also had just this week eric cantor tried to get rid of overtime pay. these are hard working americans and aspiring americans. it's not just about the rhetoric. it's also about basically am i going to achieve the american dream and unfortunately conse e conservatives have been waging it against the american dream. >> new information coming out from the census talking about the fact that black voters, minority voters have been more inclined to break out and come and vote as we look at the trends we've seen here, the black versus white vote, 66.2% of eligible blacks voted. 64.1% of whites voted in reference to last

lou: the heritage foundation is nottconservative? they don't believe in capitalism or help me out. >> no. their report admits that and they take a different picture because if you look at the report is to key features of what is not in it security issues, of border and internal and everything about the broad economics of immiggation is not anywhere so they're missing that peace that leads to the imbalance of the report. lou: listen to robert as he responds to your report. [laughter] he has numbers that says instead of what you say in your report it would reduce the overall deficit by 2.5 trillion dollars it could not be more of a swing? >> i spent six months preparing this report 80 pages long in the appendix describes the methodology over 30 pages so everybody could look in a my analysis and mr. egan does not have a steady but basically a press release about a study he might do he has provided about a page and a half of the information. >> i was taught brevity is the soul of wind and i tried to right things as long as they need to b

the heritage foundation headed up by a former republican senator jim demint says the new gang of eight bill would cost taxpayers $6.3 trillion, and that's not all. >> the point is to remind those who have come here lawfully and all american taxpayers that amnesty is going to cost them trillions of dollars over the course of their live ls, diminish their opportunities, and probably lower their income. >> an immigration hearing under way on capitol hill. you see grover norquist, famed anti-tax conservative, saying the numbers are flawed. >> the statisticians looked at the first one and said i hope they'll fix this, but they didn't fix it. they doubled down. then they added costs of legal immigrants, people who are here legally, and stick them in the six, educating a 5-year-old who was born in this country as a citizen is not a cost of passing the senate bill. that is going to be there. >> so the same assumptions you now achieve the number are the same assumptions -- >> it got worse, actually, the quality of the work. >> let's turn now and say hello to our progressive panel. congressional

what i find fascinating is what is happening in this debate with the heritage foundation and the heritage foundation has come out. they have been talking about how much this bill is going to cost. they are getting lambasted from the left and right and apparently one of the authors said that hispanics had lower i.q.s of that bill. jim demint has come in here and he has really stepped in it. they are talking about getting outside pr firms. we all remember -- at least i do -- the heritage foundation wasn't a quirky conservative think tank. i mean, the heritage foundation is where people like bill bennett and jack kemp went, very serious conservative institution. it's being battered now. >> well, they wanted to, you know, to sort of get sexier and have more edge and be out there more. they thought they were getting -- clearly thought they were getting to sort of old and stuck in the concrete. and jim demint is, you know, a darling of the tea party. he's a very smart guy but he decided to take this position. i think it's a disaster for the republicans. if they just keep doing this, forget ben

study about the undocumented immigrants the heritage foundation you know since jim de mint went over there is taken kind of a black eye i guess on this one you know since jason rich wine has been outed as basically being some you know one of these bell curve you know racist guys how to describe the white supremacist hanging out with and and. paul paul krugman came out and today in his blog he says remember heritage came up with a ludicrous claim that the ryan plan would cut unemployment to two point eight percent then tried to scrub the result from its records to produce ludicrous studies purporting to show the small farmers and business men were victims of the estate tax and there are many many more examples now heritage especially fire this guy they are he has resigned to jason but it and this isn't just about heritage it seems to me that there's this whole infrastructure of climate deniers you know the mark or ran nose in the clear climate depot dot com guys of the heritage foundation the cato the former charles koch foundation people use their marriage equality funded a sham stud

the heritage foundation, one is in? guest: we are a conservative think-tank working on conservative policies solutions and talk but as issues. we cover a broad range of issues. am thetax policy, i person. we covered economic from national security. host: how is heritage funded? guest: mostly by donations from individuals. host: did apple do anything wrong according to u.s. law, how were they able to keep this money from being taxed? guest: no, that suggestion was not even broached in the hearing. what this is all about is creating a pretext -- there is everyone on both sides of the from that we need reform the window we taxed multinational corporations. there is no doubt about that, but there is a device on how we do that. there are those who support territorial taxes, only income earned within the border. others want to take our worldwide system and make it even stronger, make businesses pay for an income as soon as it is earned. have agreement that we -- of how we do that. this was creating the perception that apple w

on what are likely very low wages well now there is also a very controversial study by the heritage foundation that was put out it was titled the fiscal impact of unlawful immigrants and amnesty to the u.s. taxpayer and what came of this was that they mean the illegal immigrants and they receive amnesty they would generate a lifetime fiscal deficit of six point three trillion dollars over their lifetime ken can we talk about the difference between dynamic scoring and static scoring and did this study even take into account you know factors considering that once one becomes illegal they start going to school all get better jobs are going to pay taxes you can you address that is yes the answer is no and they didn't take that stuff into account so it's not it's not really dynamic in that sense it's it is. it has a lot of interesting facts and figures in there but their basic approach is very static it does not look at what happens to the next generation what does happen with immigrants typically is the second or third generation is basically indistinguishable from the native population and all so

this immigration debate without mentioning the heritage foundation study because it's been in the name as it was very controversial but also the c.b. oh is supposedly going to score this bill do either of you have any numbers what you think it will look like i don't know that they're supposed to use dynamic scoring so i'm sure that the. negative economic impact would it wouldn't be as great as the heritage report but that's still to come nobody really knows what the study is going to say one. on that same note the cato institute which is a right leaning think tank here in town also did a similar study and they did use dynamic scoring and they found that the reform bill would add one point five trillion to the economy and that by forcing the eleven million undocumented workers out of the country that there would actually be a two point six trillion dollar loss over ten years to the g.d.p. adding it adding people to citizenship or painting paving the pathway to citizenship for eleven million people that doesn't increase prosperity it doesn't increase production i mean we have a jobs prob