sam kiley and mark hertling, thank you. more on the attacks in afghanistan in a moment, including a conversation with a man we talked to last night who is an american green card holder who cannot get out, still hasn't been able to. and a group of students and their families from the san diego area visiting family in afghanistan trapped trying to get out. the efforts to get them out next. ♪ got that bourbon street steak with the oreo shake ♪ ♪ get some whipped cream on the top too ♪ ♪ two straws, one check, girl, i got you ♪ ♪ bougie like natty in the styrofoam ♪ ♪ squeak-squeakin' in the truck bed all the way home ♪ ♪ some alabama-jamma, she my dixieland delight ♪ ♪ ayy, that's how we do, ♪ ♪ how we do, fancy like, oh ♪ welcome back to milkshake mustaches, high fives and high dives. to 3-on 3s... 2-on-2s... and 1-on-1s. at aspen dental, we see all the moments that make us smile so we make it easy to share your smile with convenient, total care - all in one place. and flexible hours that work with your life. right now, new p

sam kiley and mark hertling, thank you. more on the attacks in afghanistan in a moment, including a conversation with a man we talked to last night who is an american green card holder who can't get out. and a group of students and their families from the san diego area visiting family in afghanistan trapped trying to get out. th the efforts to get them out next. hey lily, i need a new wireless plan for my business, but all my employees need something different. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this... your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee... yeah i should've just led with that... with at&t business... you can pick the best plan for each employee and only pay for the features they need. with downy infusions, let the scent set the mood. feel the difference with downy. said the military would continue to rescue those threatened by taliban violence, includin

general hertling, thank you very much. so, here we go.the u.s. military approved by the president of the united states. they're calling it an over-the-horizon counterterrorism, unmanned air strike. initial indications here according to central command was that the target was killed. no civilian casualties. i mean, this was incredibly quick. what does it say the u.s. about our capability and that we are responding this quickly? >> well, don, i'd, first of all, say that as we talked about the threats the other day that pre -- preluded the -- the suicide bombing at the airport. whenever you have that kind of distinct possibility of an attack, it's because you have information. and i'm sure that the department of defense had some information garnered by all sorts of intelligence that said there was going to be some type of attack. but they didn't know what kind. but it was -- it was leading to someone who was planning that attack. so when you have something like that, you put together a target package. waiting to see what happens. you monitor

leon panetta joins us as well as cnn military analyst and retired army lieutenant general mark hertling. secretary panetta, do you think sticking to the august 31st timeline is smart? >> well, i think the president made a point he obviously is trying to meet that deadline. but he's also asked the pentagon and the state department to develop contingency plans. and i think that's important to do because frankly we made a promise. we made a promise to united states citizens who are in afghanistan and to the afghans who fought alongside of us that we would do everything we could to evacuate them. i think we've still got to keep that promise. >> general hertling, from your point of view does president biden have a choice to stick to the 31st deadline? >> he doesn't have much of a choice, anderson. what i'll tell you, anderson, is we've talked about neo, a couple of times. the non-combatant evacuation operations that is currently ongoing. there are different phases of neo. the first phase is always dysfunctional and disastrous. the second phase is when things start flowing, and that's what we

i just want to underscore what general hertling just said because this is what the secretary of defense austin, the statement that he made. he said the terrorists took their lives, our service members, at the very moment these troops were trying to save the lives of others, and i'm glad that general hertling just reminded everyone of that. the this is the day that obviously president biden and all americans were hoping would never come and that we would be able to leave and get everyone out without something like this happening. >> yeah. keep those families in your thoughts as we continue to cover the breaking news here on cnn. "the lead" with jake tapper starts right now. >> welcome to "lead." i'm jake tapper. we begin today with our breaking news in the world lead. the nightmare scenario. well, it's tragically come true. 12 u.s. service members were killed in two explosions outside the kabul airport making this the deadliest day for u.s. in afghanistan in years, and according to afghanistan's ministry of health 60 people have died. 140 have been wounded. president biden will address t

. >>> joining me now, cnn's john harwood and general mark hertling. general, i appreciate your remarks and the way you handled the coverage of the remains of the servicemen returning here. >> thanks, don, that's kind. >> it was riveting, and a great way that you paid tribute to those service members. john, i'm going to start with you. the u.s. is officially out of afghanistan. we're told there are still between 100 and 200 americans who needed to be evacuated. what are you hearing from the white house? is there a plan to get all of these people out of the country? >> don, it mostly involves exerting diplomatic pressure by the united states and its allies on the taliban to live up to the commitments that alex mentioned in that piece, to allow for safe passage for people with proper documentation to least country through the kabul airport. the united states is going to reengage with afghanistan from qatar. the embassies are closed within afghanistan but they'll operate from qatar. and for those 100 to 200 people, i think one of the things we have to rec

let me get some final thoughts as we watch from lieutenant general mark hertling. give us some final thoughts, general. >> wolf, it's tough. it's just tough to see this. i mentioned before that this was an ongoing event at dover over the last 20 years both from those who had sacrificed in afghanistan and iraq and several other places around the world. these ceremonies have gone on sometimes almost daily during the surge in different countries, but you never get used to them. i would suspect that now today because we're seeing hopefully the last casualties coming out of afghanistan, that this is especially gripping. the names of anyone in a conflict that ais the last to give their life is always the toughest. when you think something is over, and we have as we conducted this evacuation, the end of this 20-year war, to have more casualties, more sacrifice, it rips you apart. all of us who have served, and some of us who haven't, have been thinking about this for a long time. today really puts an exclamation point on the fact that we have still lost a lot of great liv

. >> joe hertling, from your point of view, does president biden have a choice to stick to the deadline? >> he doesn't have a choice, anderson. we talked about neo a couple times, the noncombat aevacuatio operations are ongoing. the first phase is always disastrous, the second phase is when things start flowing. that's what we're in right now and seeing good stuff. especially in a contested neo, the third and fourth phase is very difficult. the third phase is when the army gets a vote. when they're saying, here's what we want you to do or here's what we're going to force you to do, it becomes problematic. we also then eventually will have to talk about the fourth phase which is the time when the commander on the ground starts turning the rheostat a little bit and starts talking about what forces he allows to leave, what forces he keeps in defense of the airfield, and what forces he keeps in terms of potential contingency operations which the president talked about today. those are all very sporty propositions, and we're seeing those right now. but i just go back to the fact right now th

. >>> let's bring in retired army lieutenant general mark hertling. given what is happening right now, what should the u.s. do? >> it is going to be challenging to do anything right now. because i think it was summed up by what barbara said when she was talking about the closure of the lines of communication. the supply routes into kabul and the ability to maneuver the afghan army around. because there is no place to move them to or from. remember, a couple of weeks ago when general milley and secretary austin said that the afghan government was going to change their strategy and centralize forces and defend the major cities. all of the major cities except kabul are on the verge of falling right now. so it is very difficult to move forces from the outer provinces back into the center part of the country. and even if that is done, as you just said, as clarissa just said, without continuous communication and trust in the after government, which the military forces and the population is losing, it is going to be extremely challenging to set up a defensiv

. >> joining me now, cnn military analyst, retired lieutenant general mark hertling and distinguished fellow at the woodrow wilson center, robin wright. i'm so glad to have both of you on this evening. it's really -- it's a blessing that we have you guys here. robin, i'm going to start with you first. 20 years. more than 2,300 american lives lost. tens of thousands wounded. 2 trillion taxpayer dollars all spent ending in a humiliating mess. what message does this send about the united states to the rest of the world? that's the question. >> this is an epic defeat for the united states when you consider that america is arguably the world's most powerful nation. it stood against the mighty nazi war machine 80 years ago as well as the formidable japanese empire and won with its vast air, sea, and land power. in afghanistan, the united states couldn't prop up a military to defeat a rag tag militia with no air power, no armor, and only 60,000 fighters in a country the size of texas. this is -- it's not just humiliating. it will have, i think, a profound impact on america's standing in the

let's talk about all of it with the lieutenant general mark hertling. thank you very much for being here. there is a lot to get to with you on the issue of the chaos at and within the kabul airport. there is a big question and that is why did they not keep bagram open with multiple runways with all of the facilities of a u.s. operation going on there. during the press conference yesterday we heard from mark milley and blade austin and here is what secretary austin said. i want your response on the other side. >> we will continue to coordinate and deconflict with the taliban and make sure that those folks, those people that need to get to the airfield have the right to credentials to ensure passage and the taliban will -- has been checking those credentials and if they have them, they have allowed them to pass. we don't have the capability to go out and collect up large numbers of people. >> that is a big deal. relying on taliban to check the paperwork and we don't have enough resources to get it done. was it a mistake? was there a lesson learned from cl

i want to bring in lieu tenant general mark hertling. what moment are with at in this evacuation?'s a great question, brianna. what i suggest is when we're talking about a noncombatant evacuation operation, in a contested environment under time constraints, we're normally going to see a bunch of phases. we have seen the first phase distinction and chaos. the second phase is the flow of people according to the plan even though it still has been somewhat up and down in terms of getting the right people into the airport. now we're going into a third phase based on the president's announcement yesterday where you have to take that of who you're going to put on the plane. it's going to be a made rush to the gates, if you will, for people who know that the end is coming. so we may see another rush as we saw the first couple of days of people trying to get out. but then you're going to go into the final phase, which is going to be the toughest one. that's where you have to determine as a commander on the scene who you keep behind in terms of your forces and the consulate officials from t

joining us now cnn military analyst retired lieutenant general mark hertling, a former army general ofurope and the 7th army. also peter bergen, cnn national security analyst. he has written several books on al qaeda, afghanistan and america's longest war including the united states of jihad, investigating america's homegrown terrorists. general, i want to start with you because i understand that it is in both the taliban and the united states' military interests to get out on august 31st, but what happens if they can't? i mean what happens if the u.s. isn't done with their mission, if there are more people to evacuate? what happens then? >> it is a continual update by the commander on the scene, alisyn. i think that's what nick was attempting to talk about, is the potential for what happens when the end point draws near, when we haven't gotten as many people as we would like out, although i would estimate we are going to have somewhere between 120,000 and 150,000 out by then. that's a pretty successful mission in my view, but there will be people left behind, as some of your other com

but let me ask you about it general hertling. but president biden said yesterday, he said we have some reason to believe we know who they are. and taking them out, the isis, whoever masterminds this and taking them out it would seem to be the first real test of the over the horizon capability that we heard from the president and we heard more about in this pentagon briefing. how capable is that strategy? >> well, i mean, the president could have said we certainly know who they are. but then the issue is targeting. because these are cells. and that is how you target a suicide bomber cell. you don't go africa t-- go afte the bomber itself. if they have a vest on and approaching a check point, that is the hardest mission. what you try to do sos go after the cell producing the bombers, influencing and drugging the bombers and getting equipment for the bombers. so there may be a very good indication that somewhere in the urban area of kabul, there is a suicide network of which this particular bomber came from and targeting that is, yo

joining us now is cnn military analyst general mart hertling, the general for europe and the seventhay with us. i appreciate the time. i want to get your reaction to the taliban taking control of five cities since just friday. that does that prove that afghan forces simply weren't ready to protect their government? >> to be honest with you, boris about a month ago, myself and ot others suggested that it action would be faster than many in the government expected. it is been even faster than i expected to be honest with you. the taliban offensive on the afghan cities is just been contrary to what they agreed on doing in the peace talks in dough har which many of us knew they would not adhere to and it is challenging to the afghan force. remember when secretary austin and talking about this withdrawal, they said that hopefully the afghan government would be able to withdraw some of their forces from the rural area and protect some of the major cities in the provinces. they have not done that. this taking of kunduz yesterday is critically as nick mentioned, twice before the taliban had

back in nick paton walsh live in kaboom and kaitlan collins at the white house and general mart hertling. general, let me start with you on the the news that kaitlan was just breaking for us, that the president will be speaking this afternoon. this is the first time. and there was a lot of talk this morning of where is president biden. why hasn't he addressed the nation. what do you think -- what would you like to hear or what would you expect to hear from a president at this moment with what we're seeing play out in afghanistan now in. >> well i think it is what kaitlan said. it is going to be a tough conversation. i'm glad he's speaking sooner rather than later. he's probably going to double down on his decision. but he's also going to have address the lack of planning and collaboration with -- within the government in terms of getting this right. you know, this is what is called a neo operation. although the state department and the d.o.d. have not called it that, i've seen these before. i planned them before. the noncombatant evacuation operation that this is is one of the tougher mi

. >>> joining me now, cnn military analyst lieutenant general mark hertling, the former commander fornth army. you wrote a piece in april saying at the time that president biden made the right call. it was time to pull out of afghanistan. do you still believe that and did you anticipate the situation deteriorating quite this quickly. >> i do still believe that, erica. it was time to pull -- and thought it would go. it certainly was much more intense. the taliban has become very brazen in the way that they are attacking the cities. nick just brought it up. the thought was that they were going to stay more in the rural provinces and continue with their very successful insurgencies. but what we've seen is a much faster transition, almost from an insurgency to a near conventional type of fight where they are going into the cities because they have become more brazen, they have used psychological warfare and attempted to threaten and intimidate the security forces of afghanistan. so all of this went down much faster than anyone thought it would. you know, most afghan watchers predict that

me now, the legendary journalist, sam donaldson, and cnn military analyst, retired general mark hertling. i am so glad to have both of you on. thank you so much. general, of course, i am going to start with you. cnn reported earlier today the concerns about security around the airport in kabul have increased based on, quote, a very serious threat stream from isis-k about planned attacks against crowds outside the airport. now, this ominous warning tonight. what's your assessment of what's happening there on the ground? >> yeah, it's something i have been talking about for a while, don, on cnn and various programs. this is all about of a neo operation. you know, in a contested, noncombatant evacuation operation, a neo, you are going to have different phases of the operation. we saw the first couple of days being the chaotic phase. then, it smoothed out and we were starting to get a lot of folks out. we're now in the time when the enemy is about to get a vote or they are trying to get a vote. and that's why the embassy issued this warning tonight. i don't think this is the end of the evacu

. >> so i was speaking to general hertling earlier, ivan, and he said this will potentially put the taliban -- or at least certifies their leadership role because they certainly don't like isis-k, and the taliban will be happy about this air strike against isis-k. what is next for afghanistan? how can the taliban and isis-k coexist there? can they? >> reporter: well, they have a history of conflict between them. the taliban doesn't seem to like isis-k. it has to establish that it has some kind of command and control over afghanistan. i think one of the big questions going forward, 20 years ago when the taliban was last in power, afghanistan was almost a medieval state. there were no paved roads outside of the center of kabul and the main cities. you had to go across the border to pakistan to make a phone call because there was no telephone infrastructure. now you have paved roads, functioning airports, cell phone networks that ironically the taliban used to fight against the u.s. during the 20 years of the u.s. presence there. a big question will be, will the taliban maintain open trade and

general hertling, you're still with us. i want to show you video that came into cnn. a journalist that accompanied afghan troops into a military hanger there at the kabul airport. you see them, they joined the taliban. these are the taliban going into this what used to be the u.s. airport there in kabul with u.s. military equipment. taliban troops are in control. who is in charge of this u.s. military equipment left behind. >> it's unfortunate, wolf. there are people suggesting we left this stuff behind for the taliban and in fact, this was foreign military sales to the afghan army. and given the size and capacity of the afghan army, i mean, they are going to have over 300,000 a.r. -- excuse me m 4s or m 16s, they're going to have machine guns, trucks, not all of the things have been destroyed. i've seen a rollup the other day about the amount of things we've provided to the emerging afghan army and it significant. in the last few days, i think the military that we're at airport attempted to destroy as much eaquipment as possible but that doesn't account for the amoun

glad that general hertling just reminded everyone of that. the this is the day that obviously president biden and all americans were hoping would never come and that we would be able to leave and get everyone out without something like this happening. >> yeah. keep those families in your thoughts as we continue to cover the breaking news here on cnn. "the lead" with jake tapper starts right now. >> welcome to "lead." i'm jake tapper. we begin today with our breaking news in the world lead. the nightmare scenario. well, it's tragically come true. 12 u.s. service members were killed in two explosions outside the kabul airport making this the deadliest day for u.s. in afghanistan in years, and according to afghanistan's ministry of health 60 people have died. 140 have been wounded. president biden will address the nation at the top of the next hour. cnn has obtained videos from the aftermath of the attacks. parents may want children to leave the room before we show this to you now. the videos we're about to show are graphic and difficult to watc

let me go now to general mark hertling. what is your take on what we're seeing unfold before us. >> i want to reinforce what tim lister just said. because he nailed it in terms of the isis-k network if that is who this is. they have been active in kabul for the last several years. they've conducted a multiple attacks against afghan security forces both army and police. they want to create carnage and confusion and imtim dags -- intimidation. we could talk about al qaeda or haqqani, but i suspect they have done this and it is embarrassing to the taliban. no you do we care about that? not really. but it does pose some threats to our neo operation, our noncombat ant military operation. the neo which has been having spits and starts, i said the other day with you that had t has different phases. we have just entered the third phase. it is a contested neo that just got more contested because the enemy now has a vote. truthfully, kate, i expected this. didn't expect it today. i expected it tomorrow. and the reason why i say tomor