use hetch hetchy and hetchy use the cheaper recs. what staff has done is try to put the numbers behind that concept and that's where there is still discussion going on, because clearly the lpi people are not happy with that estimate. but what it says is that because we're providing excess energy and firming it, that becomes as expensive as pg&e. now, there is an option, it would be a policy option. you don't have to do the excess. you can go into the base. you can say we're going to provide less energy to city hall or folks like that. that's firmer power. it would be cheaper to firm up. that's not what local power has said they're suggesting and it's not something i think i would support. but because we're talking about the least reliable power that we have, the cost of firming it is higher than it might otherwise be. and i think that makes sense. that passes the whiff test and sharper pencils are going to continue to work on this. i think we've made some real progress on it. the most unfortunate part of it is i think there is at lea

you also asked us to unpack these key issues, whether or not we can provide the hetchy power and is it more affordable. or is changing the rec mix to the tradable recs which are less than a quarter of a penny versus the bundled recs that are 5 pennies, how much does that affect price. so, we do have a shared goal. so, i want to make sure that the stakeholders as well as the viewing public knows that we all want to get the lowest price. it make our job harder to go out with a price premium at all. and if we were able to get cheaper greener power, we'd be the first ones to propose it to you. >> all right. when is your next meeting with lpi? >> my last one was last tuesday. we've traded e-mails as recently as today. i believe their next one is tomorrow? tomorrow afternoon. >> what time? >> 2 o'clock. >> where? >> it is in -- it's a teleconference and we'd be happy to share that with anybody that lets me know after the meeting. >> i'm [speaker not understood] now. will mr. brooks be in the call or is he being excluded? he >> these are staff check inses. we have public stakeholders meetings

>> commissioner there is no forebound revenue and the hetch hetchy is modeled at market rate and those have been confronted by todd ritchie. >> yes and the other big piece is the change in the renewable energy credit strategy because there are several different categorize and they are available at very different prices on the marketplace but as far as the wholesale we have five% power purchase treatments just like the she'll agreement and so there is no speech special wholesale strategy in this model the change in the reek strategy and a change in the hetch hetchy strategy and they are agency decisions from which the program from the agency side and not some new requirement on she'll that would require going back to the drawing board, urk you are talking about changing up the resource mix rather than the local build-up pees piece for phase one. >> that is right is then a slight different number of customers with that mix. >>> 12 residential. >> it's still upall residential at this point. >>> but we want to writing on the commercial customers as soon as possible. >> that is correct but

moran races a good point if you bring up the most average and cost effective which hetchy is the most cost effective in california and it's an amazing system but i can't tell you it's firm for the next ten or 20 years and you will see that in one of the slides in the consumptions is that ap i has assumed that we have relatively standard prices and relatively affordable hetchy and that it's form year after year and that is a risk had a i can't mitigate away without collateral or or reserves. >> and typically what we do on that is we have a farming contract that says, where hetchy cannot meet the load. somebody else will and we can lock in the price for that. >>> that is typically always more expensive and so in the last ten-seven years, we typically had to buy at six to 7 cents per kilowatt hour and we are always trying to sell it at four so we are trying to maximize for hetch hetch worry and but which are having to buy when others have to buy too and so the risk is all a material matter to mitigate away and i i understand u.n. they are doing additional work on that over the next few m

it was including hetchy power and by doing a different combination of recs. and my question to staff was can we support that. how do we -- taking those two issues -- can we get to the same answer? and that's what they set out to do. and i will tell you, mr. brooks has made comments about staff not getting it and i take offense at that. they get it. ms. hale and mr. reedstrom are very bright, very sophisticated people. they understand numbers and they can take a concept and they can make it real with real numbers. if lpi is incapable of convincing them of those numbers, then they have not convinced me. so, what i had hoped that they would do is be able to make their proposal real in a way that could be quantified, in a way that very intelligent and sophisticated people can incorporate those numbers, and test the proposition. so far the answer has been that the proposition fails, okay. and if lpi has better information to share, they should do that. >> president, commissioners, arthur feinstein, chair of the chapter of the sierra club. * i work on wetlands and

that's the hetch hetchy provides over the course of the year. each month represents in those bars the consumption of our current customer base and then added on top of that is the 30 megawatts worth of clean power sf load that we'd be proposing to serve. you can see in some months, january to july, we have adequate hetchy power to supplement the needs of the cca program. but in july through december we don't. and, so, we're in the market. that's very consistent with the presentations at our last commission meeting, a recognition that it would need to be a mix of purchase power as well as hetchy power to serve the demands. so, that's a pretty clear and comfortable picture for average water year. so, we also have to address the needs of the program in a low water year, in a dry water year. there you can see, you know, they don't happen very frequently. we've been dry one of nine years, 10 of the last 90 years. we have the data, have been dry water years. and you could see that there's substantial need for purchasing to meet not just our municipal

one is about the lpi proposal that there be 20 megawatts of shell and 18, i think it was, of hetchy. i have the same question of staff. the answer is that if hetchy power isn't cheaper than shell power, it doesn't matter what the mix is. it price ends up being the save. -- same. * that didn't mirror exactly what the lpi was, the import was the same. with that said, i just urge that as we proceed down this road that we can focus on the numbers. there is liberty and freedom in the numbers and discipline in the numbers. the process we've gone through in the last few days, there is a chart that wasn't with us today that -- there was a memo that we got from l. wine rob saying we take issue with these three numbers. my question back to him was, what are your three numbers that go with that? his answer was, i don't know. * we need to focus on what those numbers are, that if we agree on numbers, let's check them off and say, okay, that one is done. if there are numbers we don't agree on, it is a quantitative exercise. you can get there. even if you don't like each other. this is fine, folk.

also, you know, we have a big capital need and then repairing our hetchy system. so, we talked about that as well. so -- >> i need correct myself. i overtated the account. it's closer to 500 on average -- >> not 2 million? >> yes. >> have we ever asked pg&e why they don't offer rebates? >> pg&e does offer rebates. pg&e offer rebates under the state california solar incentive program. >> then why do we need this program at all? >> that's the policy call of the board of supervisors and implementing the program initially. as we've talked about implementing our community choice aggregation program, clean power s efficienttion, we talked about tying it to that customer set. and when the board authorized the clean power sf program, they appropriated an additional $2 million to go solar sf customers of the cca program. so, so, you know

the city of california, has determined that the economic value of restoring hetch hetchy would be $6 billion annually to the people of california and therefore, i think that is 6 billion reasons why they are key stakeholders in this process and so, we would urge you would amend or revise or have more conversation truly about this issue by requiring that instead of providing veto power to unelect of the power on the peninsula require an elect toarl component to the region it may represent and put it directly to the voters of the from a and if you are going to veto the will of the voters of the san francisco, it should be by other voters not unelected officials and secondly i would put bawsca on the hook for this so that san francisco lay pair doesn't have to pay for that and lastly, i would say put it to a vote. all of california are key stakeholders in that issue and i urge you that they be given an opportunity to way in on this issue. >> thank you mr. martial. mr. rose crans? >>> welcome. >>> thank you mr. president and commission rs thank you for the opportunity to speak here today

that or projecting that they could supply hetch hetchy power. . and that is not very easy. as you know your chief financial officer has said you can predict. the time of energy or the quantity of energy we are going to get from hetch hetchy whether it's a reliable amount to be supplied. if you deal with something like a trans -- they have more money and they can afford to pay more but, the question is are you all able to supply? now your staff, they gained again i plea with you your staff are constituent sitting down over there and they have no clue whatsoever about this presentation. in fact, they have no clue, i doubt if they can explain to you and you are welcome to bring them here to you about the resolution. this is -- stick to what is on their agenda and if you bring the variables over here and some of us can connect the dots but most people cannot. and so we have to go slow with this. we cannot introduce too many variables, which do not have certainty. in this business, in this market nobody has certainty and you are a large entity that has control over those thing w

additional investment in hetch hetchy is also a key, a key reason for a $90 million increase. summarized on slide 8 is every key change of the ten-year capital plan, but the ones that are the biggest changes, there are additional investment in water place many. additional investment in some capital projects in transmission, including some clean up at the gun club property. the additional investment in emergency preparedness with auxiliary water supply system. and then the sewer system improvement program. and then the other big one at the bottom is power, new projects. and, so, we have always known there would be large potential investments needed and as we've gotten updated condition assessments from our up country personnel, we've identified about $73 million in particular of additional generation needs and some transmission upgrades and switch yard upgrades. what does all this mean for the average rate payer? it means that if you look at the average water bill and you look at the current year monthly folks pay about $35 a month for water service 24/7 reliability. everything

still saying this at the done annoy where those location are and they are still talking about hetch hetchy power and i trust your staff with i know it's the same issue for all of these times and as a permitting environmental lawyer, i hear the proposal for local build-out would you tell any understanding without any understanding that has been given to site and permanentings and that is a huge under takings and certainly without annoy nog what they are proposing. thank you for your time. >> thank you. jason freed l.a. s c o staff on laugh behalf of supervisor chair comp poe and is one comment that wanted to give on this part of the presentation was that making sure that whatever is good much local power's presentation that we are trying to use that to implement that we are not flow throwing down the launch of program and this is key for all of my commissioners and not slowing down the program we need to get this program lamped and up and running as quickly as possible and if there are things that can be utilized in his presentation great but if not we should continue to move forward and th

pristine public drinking water to 2.6 million people in the san francisco bay area from the hetch hetchyional water system. with also generate clean renewable energy for city services like public buses, hospitals, schools, and much more. and finally, we collect and treat all the city's wastewater and stormwater making it safe enough to discharge into the san francisco bay and pacific ocean. >> in 2006 the puc was planning a record number of projects. >> the public utilities commission is a very infrastructure-rich organization. we're out there rebuilding the water system. we've budget working on power generation in the country. we've been doing sewer for the city. we're looking at a brand-new rebuild of all watt systems in san francisco and we haven't had a home that's been other than mental. >> they staff over 900 people. the puc is in two office locations. >> you know, this is such a great place for a building. if the puc owned that building and we could make that the icon i can sustainable building puc represents, wouldn't be a dramatic idea? >> so, one of the major decisions we made

some available of hetchy and if all of these major mage key assumptions come to pass and if the city is able to borrow the near million dollars that,that is the key assumptions that it would take in order for a claim to be able to say to meter or b or to have a rate parody with the p g and e and what is helpful about this exercise is it's helped us put flesh to an idea as far as what would have to align what things would have to come together in order for these rate parody and is meter f g and e rates which policy maker and is stakeholders have told us even if it's 2006 that, that would have been the ideal way to setup of the centimeters c a and this is the way to get there and key programmatic risk that is we have talked about and they are summarized here to help provide you deliberation and next steps and input and how to focus our soaforts with that, happy to answer any questions. >>> so how did it go with the meeting that you were scheduled to have with the advocates. >> we have very good deliberation over the mast week on wednesday alone we have four hours of meetings one and-a-