hirsi was not born and bred as "the new yorker." he came from -- what made sean trust that hersey could get this story? >> hirsi was writing for "time" magazine and henry louis was the head of new yorker hated each other. they voluptuously hysterically hated each other. hirsi had been reporting for time in 1939 and loose was grooming him to be the heir apparent to the times inc.. >> i don't mean to interrupt but he was of that type. he was not like a.j. liebling. he was an elegant figure. >> he was also from yale and also when you read what hersey wrote they are a far cry from what he was writing for "the new yorker" later on. >> as somebody who cares only about literary style i think that's a hugely important point and i want to hold it for a moment. but he had written one hugely significant piece. in historical terms in a credible piece for "the new yorker" for that, right? >> that's our hirsi did come to "the new yorker." he breaks up with luce because he thinks he's far too chauvinistic for him and he said thanks but no thanks i