holocaust in american history. most americans are not aware of what is communicated in the us holocaust museum which is most americans in the 1930s thought that americans knew what the nazis were doing, that is well documented in the exhibition. most americans thought it was horrible and jews were suffering and what was going on was unconscionable and they also were opposed. the polls show they were opposed to letting jews into this country. that is a stain on american history. that's an uncomfortable aspect of our history and this is not a question of one side or the other. these are facts. materials that are on exhibits at the holocaust museum in a straightforward way, these should make us uncomfortable and that is part of what is going on. your mexican. so the founding manager of the mets. one of my heroes. one of my heroes turns out casey stengel was available and racist. i did but know that either. i have to step back. this is uncomfortable. this is a childhood hero. i start reading most of my childhood heroes

it's not even about black history. it's about real history unbiased on census history. give people credit where it's to teach it in schools and universities. be transparent. that's all in the call. one of the things that you and your cooperators have done is actually to listen to the criticism and listen to some of the feedback that you got from the initial project. and you've used that, i took me forward and developed other teaching tools to put the book together. tell us how that criticism helped you. that wasn't just super conservative criticism, something you thought, okay, we can use that. that's helpful. sure. i mean, this was a massive undertaking and i don't know of a single scholar or a single journalist that produces a major work and thinks that they have done everything in that work perfectly. i mean, in the field of historiography, the bait happens, people will publish and then other scholars will critique what was published in those publications be get amended, and that's what we did with the new york times of a 69000 project where the critique was offered

and brown history.se the question then is what sathnam sanghera would teach, because i look at your writings, including empire land, but yourjournalism as well, and you are very trenchant in your views now about how we need to use very specific language about, for example, the british empire. you call it "a wilful, unapologetic exercise in white racial supremacy. britain was dehumanising black people on a super—industrial scale." but i also say empire didn't start out as that. it didn't start out as a wilfully racist thing. it happened in the 19th century when britain suddenly found itself running a quarter of the planet and noticed that they were white and almost all the people they were ruling over were brown. and there were all these weird ideas to do with racial science that were emerging, and it turned into a proudly white supremacist exercise. but that was pretty much in the 19th century. it wasn't for the whole history. right. but, you know, there are a lot of people watching this around britain

it's a subtle difference. >> there's more to our history than race. >> there is more to our history than race, but, you cannot understand our history, without understanding that unbroken mine. look, one of the major critics of the 16 19 project, going back to not just sean, is james oakes, at the university. >> another great historian. >> you will know the name of his first book us? >> his first book? i don't. >> his first book is called the ruling race. okay? so, it is not as if he doesn't think that this has not been some kind of continuous threat in american history. this difference between saying white supremacy is in the essence of american history, as opposed to white supremacy, and the president, it has been continuous, and has continued to influence our institutions, and our culture. these are two different kinds of things. though lincoln was a racist, and again, this goes back to what historians do, is work with each other. >> in a civil manner. >> yes, in a civil manner. the most important book, in some ways, or the most highly visible book, that argues that lincoln was a racis

history. why call it that? is there such thing of the history of cuba that the part of the u.s.? and if not why not? >> i struggled with the title initially. first i began imagining the book it was just cuban : history. but someone convinced me that i needed something a little more provocative. else suggested cuba -- in american history. when i first heard it i resisted it. i said to her at the time, the price for admission into the history of cuba could not be whatever episode or character or something to do with the u.s. there should be no u.s. price of admission to human history. i was also worried about turning over in his grave a little bit. as i kept working on the project i came to the conclusion he would really appreciate this title. one of the things i really like about it, as it is a little unsettling. you do not know what it means. that's kind of what i wanted to do with the book. i wanted to shift the ground a little bit underneath the reader. may be questioned what they take for g

i love history. but. >> that's the part of what's been troubling about some of the pushbackparticularly from historians.for me, if you want people to understand why history matters , if you want people to study history and to use the history that you're making, then you can't be so exclusive as to how that history is ultimately used. to have schoolchildren telling me i wasn't interested in history because of this project is about the present, it helps understand this is what i need to know about what happened in 1865 because this is how it's shaping the society i live and now that is what the power of what we tried to buy also where opposition comes from. >> 1.2 make is that if we ever have any question about whether history was important . it's pretty obvious that you know, whoever owns thepath owns the present . there's a lot of truth to that. history telling is a form of wielding power as you suggested and therefore it's very contentious. i think another point that you make in your democracy essay

what i want to dwell on is her sense of history, how she goes about writing history. one of the more famous things that she does is she brings to textbooks visualization. think about the textbooks that you guys had in high school or whatever. you remember they had giant maps of america and colored parts for this -- this kind of colonization, colored for that colonization, that group living there. developing the sense of history through maps. she starts that. so what she basically wants to say is by the visual students can grasp so much more of american history, so much more quickly. in fact, she's so committed to this idea of just grasping the visual history of america that she tries to figure out how can i make a single image that will be the whole history of america up to the present day. and this is the image she comes up with. a tree. okay. so a couple of things to notice about this tree. first of all, you see left and right, it's the same kind of imagery you got on that membership in the plymouth society. the sort of so-called native wilderness beforehand, englis

it takes cultural means to build a history. history doesn't just happen. it has to be written by somebody, spread in some way. that could be speeches, memorials or textbooks or any number of things. doesn't just happen. there have to be cultural intermediaries. of the cultural intermediaries are from a certain section highlighting the importance of that section to the nation becomes a crucial feature of that. if all the historians were to do that what would american history look like. most of these were from new england. the importance of the mayflower, becomes crucial to the whole thing. any questions or thoughts or comments about all this history business? yes? >> do you think the domination of the pilgrim narrative over jamestown was conscious effort or do you think it happened naturally? >> the idea of local pride. new england is not only losing population but political significance. four of the last five are from the south. they are not getting the political significance they feel they deserve. in a certain sense they could give themselves national -

this is american history, good, bad, ugly, american history. is where the pushback comes in. i'm a cynic. this feels like it's almost all being done for political gain short term. i'm an optimist. i think over time we'll get better at this. but i guess the question is how long is it going to take? >> i think it's happening. i mean, there's another piece of the equation we can't forget, and that's the young people themselves. this debate about talking about race is over. young people are doing it on their own. they are googling the pink elephant you told them not to talk, and they're fascinated by this. so they're falling down wikipedia rabbit holes about the truth of race in this country and talking about it with their friends as if this never occurred. i'm not sure there's going to be as much power in these laws as lawmakers think. i think there's going to be a lot of very resentful kids who realize their parents were trying to hide the truth from them or lie to them about something fundamental about who they are. so the curriculum is part of

there is revisionist history publishing cuba. there's revisionist history published in miami. there are -- i think that my account challenges above all the cuban government's version of historical version of its own revolution. so, there's a-- you know, if you think about the cuban revolution, that's one thing i try to do. you know, people tend to think of the cuban revolution as a cuban state and think about it one period of 1959 to the present. and how did it come to power? how did it change? how did it become what it became? and one. things that i really emphasize in my analysis is that the cuban revolution in the beginning was not fidel castro's revolution and many, many elements made the revolution, a middle class house wives, all of them participated in the revolution and it became after. it was a result of a dynamic that had to do with many, many things. and the figure of castro himself, and his relationship to the cuban people and it had to do with mainstream political demand, present cuban society long before 1969, when castro enacted the first reform, millions chan c

of experience in american history. this is not divisive concepts, these are facts. and the facts are that knees kinds of divisions have been part of our history. and if we don't understand them, we can't deal with them. >> i've been reading about the 1790s recently. that was not a period of unity politically in our country. we've all seen scenes from school board meetings across the country, on news broadcasts of parents objecting to the teaching of what they call critical race theory or anti-racism curricula. even in loudoun county, they've been making national news. teachers feel threatened or intimidated. where did this come from? >> it seems to have come from a small group of people who, in essence, sat down and said, how do we distract americans from what the real issues are in american politics and get them to argue about cultural issues, about issues that quite frankly aren't really issues. if you look at the legislation that's been introduced in 27 states that relates to this, most of that legislation prohibits

and take history serious. and one of the things that helps monticello that helps other places as well is the people are running it, they care about the history really and work with the historians and have to understand there has to be a translation from some of the things going in the history books to people who are going to be preparing to the people who will be hearing it. that is being big change taking the history seriously and i think because a great figure of that there's been so much written about him any had also much information himself and his people were serious about it. all of this information about slavery was there in the years past, jefferson's biographers were writing about him pretty but they were not interested in that, salt like new documents, it was all there the enslaved pe but they were the when people talk about jefferson coming back from paris, they say they came back with his servants. the family had named these other people start, there just like - and once you get past that you actu

history, to use the history you are making cannot be so exclusive with how that history is ultimately used. i have children telling me i'm not interested in history is that the about the present. this is what i need to know about what happens in a perfect society because this is how i live on now. this is where the opposition comes from. >> once you make an preface to it if we ever have any questions whether history was important it's pretty obvious whoever owns the past on the present. there is a lot of truth to that. it's a form of wielding power which you suggested therefore is very pretentious. i think another point you make in the democracy to but to demonstrate african americans were exclusionary. i think it makes not included but take it really, really seriously. that seems to be that is one of the things that excite students and others to recognize is not necessarily an alternative of how the country came into being in who we are to think for it. one of the things that have really impressed me from the beginning is the extremely ambitious arc of the project. it is a long time

for republican states and blue history in democratic states. i think many of us, i for one, remain hopeful there's more common ground than that, that we can figure out a way to teach young americans about this heritage that they have in our civic institutions and our history in a way that does not polarize but brings us together while of course allowing plenty of room to have all of the conversations we have to have about debate in american civics, about the dark chapters in our history, and on and on. now, finding that common ground was one of the key goals of the american advocacy project and today was to discuss whether the drafters of that road map did indeed find that common ground or whether it's skewed one way or another, and that is what we're going to get into. so, with that, really the main event here is to get to our debaters, our panelists, and it's their show. let me quickly introduce them. and then we'll get started. first of all, danielle allen is the james bryant conan university professor at harvard university. she's a public p

but it was also an important episode in history, any evil history and german history in world history as iexplained in the book . so the question is that could i address both of these needs ? also about the place of the vikings and a proper understanding of their place in history and this book is the result. what it really is about is the idea of this extraordinary continuity in cultural attitudes and in mindsets that travels over from the viking experience, the world in which the vikings made and that made the vikings through scandinavia during the later stages of its place in european history and then to the experience of scandinavian immigrants. that this cultural gift, this cultural skill set applied not only in our region . it expands to icelanders, it's part of a common nordic cultural heritage that i call the viking heart.that's my term for thiscultural skill set . and it's watch one in which the importance of which i don't think we've understood even as scandinavian americans or historians. it's one that i think needs to be explored more and i see my book really as starting th

, black family histories, culture histories and even larger stories of emergency are what can be doneat must be done when it feels that the world is collapsing in of a person, of a family, of a community, of a nation. and so i think that it's a way that rose could have kept ashley close even when ashley was away from her and protect from slave traders, sleigh dealers and people that would enslave her which can be as an escape as story of edward shows. the brain can function almost like a photograph, like a visual and tactile of representation. because hair holds our dna, it also could symbolize for ashley because was actually not kind of food to get a hands on. that was south carolina, but a little bit further west ward than the mississippi river area, granted the southwest or texas and mexico. it turns out incredibly nutritious to save our hunger and also perhaps other things and love was the biggest thing for ashley that day. she was worthy insisting that she was truly without her kids. so rose gave ashley a sack packed with the items that i just listed and ashley passed it down to

c-span.org/history. >>> we welcome you to the washington times for this special episode of history as it happens podcast. it's for people who want to think about current events, historically, and it's available wherever you get your podcasts or history as it happens dot-com. we are joined by james grossman of the american historical association. >> good afternoon. thank you for inviting me. >> excited to have you here for an important discussion about divisive concepts. the past, how it is studied, whose version of events gains ascendancy has been a battlefield because origin stories matter as much as ever before in america. james, the aha is trying to influence this debate, now roiling the nation over what should be taught in history and social studies classes. first, what are divisive concepts and where did this controversy come from? >> well, divisive concepts seem to be things that some people are objecting to that teachers are teaching in their classrooms as part of american history. it seems to be that teaching the history of division is problematic for some people, and that's w

how do you guys decide as a board what belongs in history -- in a history curriculum? we're talking about the state of virginia whose history is very sfraut. >> i will echo that we're not teaching critical race theory. irt's a graduate level theory and it would be inappropriate if a fifth grader was learning that in school. it's been manipulated. critical race theory has been manipulated to replace inequity theories that's what leads to discipline disproportion nalt and students being treated differently based on perhaps their skin color, poverty and socioeconomics what we're teaching students is compassion and empathy for the other students' experiences. it can't be objective because we're experiencing it subjective. >> are you having a rational debate in loudoun? >> there is no rational debate it's beyond that. >> what is it? >> i have to go back to the pandemic because it stirred from parents who were very legitimately concerned about schools being closed so you had angry parents who i absolutely empathize with and we wanted to help we took their kids out of school

the history of protest in the history of struggle, my goodness protest in all 50 states, that never happens during the civil rights movement. in the same concentrated period of time in the searing team will be divided. red state or blue state is a false division the idea that we had protest in idaho and san francisco around the same issue about the same man who was killed in minneapolis obviously that speaks the people are upset ways that is far transcend to what occurred with george floyd and not even other viral videos or anything like that but they saw a reflection of their own lived experience of what happened to george floyd that's the only reason why there would ever be protest at large and that intense. to me in the aftermath of the protest and also thinking about if we can get the book out i appreciate them for doing this. if we can get the book out in fall of 2021 the anniversary of when colin kaepernick with the anthem and started nfl season, why not. that is a good point by which we start the discussion while being extremely humble about the story been an ongoing story. i

american history tv.y on c-span2 visit the people and places that tell the american story and watch thousands of historical stories online anytime at c-span.org/history. you can also find us on twitter, facebook and youtube as c-span history. >> these presidents recorded conversations while in office. many of the conversations on c-span new podcast, presidential recordings. >> season one focuses on the presidency of lyndon johnson you here about the 1964 rights act, the 1964 presidential campaign. and the war in vietnam. not everyone knew that they were being recorded. >> certainly johnson secretary new because they were tasked with transcribing many of the conversations. they were the ones that made sure the conversations were taped as johnson would signal to them through an open door through his office. >> you also hear blunt talk. >> the number of people that assigned to kennedy the day he died. >> i can't ever go to the bathroom i won't go, i won't go anywhere i'll stay behind these gates. >> funding

this is not a corporate history of mcdonald's. they did not open up their archives. >> no they didn't, they did not. i think that's a blessing for us be creative and go around. and find really interesting stuff. talk about that process, what are your great fines question recorded you go? >> i went everywhere. i can't believe i did this, i really can't. when i think about the amount of times i got on airplanes in my recent events, got on an airplane stayed for days at a library to get three pieces of paper and the excitement. this is the life of a historian. i tell my students when you're on twitter under something that's gone viral and there's a joke you spent maybe 40 minutes trying to find its origin to fill really proud of yourself, that is my job that's my whole professional life. [laughter] so mcdonald's has its own archives is not (and it's a corporation. how do i tell a story about mcdonald's? this is really about shifting the lens. floyd speak about black america succeed mcdonald's is everywhere. my look at the papers of p

harry truman would withstand the history and he understood the history is not simple and in the historyr country is simple and america is not simple and he understood in a way, such thing as the past, nothing ever happened in the past, and only happen in the present in somebody else's present, not ours. john adams, george washington, harry truman, who didn't walk around saying this was in the past. are we remarkable in this. and truman understood the english language from 1948 campaign and almost all delivered on the backs of the train and much equality of the language, the english language and how crowded his teachers must have been. one syllable word if he could suffice for three syllable word, that's what he would pick and had less to do with the fact that it has a classical education which is exactly but not if teachers that john adams had her thomas jefferson and its through george washington or harold green and only can sixth grade education but to read the classics and in translations classical education, was with the understood and founding time. and so the red arctic hundred pa

that isn't history. you need to sit down aggressively and ask yourself what are the key unanswered questions in the bush presidency, the clinton presidency, abraham lincoln presidency. if you approach it that way, you avoid the amassing lots of basically irrelevant information. >> could you have done what you do if you lived in atlanta or sacramento? >> i suspect not. there's understand ground parking garages in atlanta and sacramento but it's a long trip. no. i find i can have people over to my house. i can invite them again and again and that's really central to it. am i getting too isolated, to washington centric. then i read one of my critics of the bush books i did, george w. bush. i did four books on his wars in afghanistan and iraq. i was criticized because the books were too white house centric. i remember, wait a minute, that's where they make the decisions. you can cover the cia or the pentagon and think the decisions are really made here. they are important parts of the puzzle but george w. bu

i love history. but. >> that's the part of what's been troubling about some of the pushbackparticularly from historians.for me, if you want people to understand why history matters , if you want people to study history and to use the history that you're making, then you can't be so exclusive as to how that history is ultimately used. to have schoolchildren telling me i wasn't interested in history because of this project is about the present, it helps understand this is what i need to know about what happened in 1865 because this is how it's shaping the society i live and now that is what the power of what we tried to buy also where opposition comes from. >> 1.2 make is that if we ever have any question about whether history was important . it's pretty obvious that you know, whoever owns thepath owns the present . there's a lot of truth to that. history telling is a form of wielding power as you suggested and therefore it's very contentious. i think another point that you make in your democracy essay

the antidote to feel-good history is not feel-bad history but honest and inclusive history. he goes on there in the passage of one of his books that honest history teaches that the good and bad come together and that is part of our collective identity and we have to kind of pay attention to our collective identity so that we can help our country grow more thoughtful, more tolerant, rather than being an ethnocenteric nation and i do think what is included in the history books is very important to all of us today, so i hope you will enjoy coming to grips with this story, learning about it, and then learning about the history of your community or your state, that perhaps is not as well known either. thank you very much for coming today, i hope we will see you again next year. >> thank you carol, thanks everybody. >> american history tv, saturdays on c-span 2, exploring the people and events that tell the american story. 2:00 p.m. eastern on the presidency, historian allen gelzo and other scholars examine whether the united states needs a president, then 8:00 p.m. eastern on lec

the sweet spot would be honey bring popular history and academics history, will unite them. >> one of the historian diseases too many, certainly not you with some historians chase obscurity and i visited the presidential library libraries and meet with the team of people who do the interviewing so safely one of the bush presidency's and you will find the labor secretary and interview him or her and when did you first make your question what was it like. that is not history, and event discussions with the people who do these interviews in my view is you need to sit down aggressively and ask yourself, where the key and answered questions in the bush presidency and the clinton presidency, any of the abraham lincoln presidency and if you approach it that way, you avoid the kind of masking of basically irrelevant information. >> could have you had the story career that you had a few moved out of washington dc, knowing the landscape so well and the government works pretty good if you done what you do if you lived in atlanta or sacramento. >> i suspect not. there underground parking garages.

anytime at c-span.org/history. >> [inaudible] number one history book in

it's a history. there is a big movement to remove confederate history. well, it's part of history. move on? or do you feel like slavery still has an effect today? >> it's over and it is part of history. it's part of the past. i don't know of a person that owns a slave or has been a slave to this day. i think we're going to make it a major issue as long as we keep rubbing it in from the standpoint of the minority saying, well, we were slaves and mistreated. i understand that. what the hell do you want me to do about it? i'm sorry. i wasn't there. i'm 50 years old. i wasn't there. >> and what do you say to historically black universities that say we're not going fly this flag because it's a symbol of slavery? do you think about their point of view? >> it is the state flag of mississippi. >> but if they say it actually hurts us, it deeply offends us. it represents something that gives us pain. what do you say to that? >> i don't see the pain in the symbol. ♪♪ >> new orleans is just the latest city to start taking down historical but controversial monuments that many say celebrate slav

and then with the vikings and the independent history.t the end of the napoleonic wars and then to give finland to the russians and give norway asns a consolation prize. but increasingly in the 19th century. and that is the basis. in many concessions as they could. and without control altogether and there was that desire and respect. >> and then to gratify with that nationalist movement. and then to be too demanding. and then to get its independence. but then i i remember as a boy once and go through other countries like panama and romania and bulgaria. >> and then to say swedish? [laughter] t so yes. and then as i learned about history and then betrayal. >> because as an art as a curator i don't doubt but then the first opera house but then to be civilized people. >> and there is an effort to integrate the scandinavian countries into mainstream and civilization. not at the same time recognizing that also in the discovery of their viking roots and that this is a whole other chapter four scandinavians generally and then to have a national

of american history. i'm not kidding when i say doctor miles is prolific author of six books, her first but ties that bind from the organization of american historians and american study association and the house on diamond hill one public history and the american society for ethnic history book prices. her novel was an award finalist. also public lecture series won the award for social history and the history of race relations from the organization of american and historians. but then the legacy award of nonfiction an american book award and the frederick douglass prize. we are all here to learn all that she carries which receives an outpouring of faith some of that comes from the back of the book and then to confront the staggering atrocity of american slavery and the beauty of the lie street chronicles with the brilliant and tenderness i can attest of where she approaches history. setting off to do research she told me she was more interested in what i could do with five documents than 500. at the time

in his history. and bradford, relatively common among educated men at the time. dealing primarily with history and religion, the poems were a venue to express feelings that he tempered in his history. finally he compiled a letter book in which he copied correspond that told the colony's story. and wish he drew on when i inserted in text, letters he considered important. only a portion of that manuscript survived, but indicates a scope of the original. the first extend page contains a letter from the colony's investors. and that page is numbered 339. suggesting a vast number of items from early years that we would love to know about. but in these books, bradford sometimes omitted portions of the letters he was including in his history. where those emissions are significant, we have printed them in the adaptation. as all of this might suggest, the task to producing this anniversary at plymouth plantation. it was much more than and learned about that's what i wish to focus on. in the results of new engl

history.hare his love of american history and have come to know ken as a friend and a supporter. recently i sat down with ken to discuss our mutual interest about this country's history. you are, i assume, in walpole, new hampshire where you do most of your work. walpole, new hampshire is not known as a media center. [laughter] so i am curious how come you happen to do all of your there. -- all of your work there. ken: i moved here in 1979, 42 years ago, when i realized that becoming a documentary filmmaker focusing on american history was taking a vow of anonymity and poverty. though my first film was nominated for an oscar and everyone assumed i would come back to the city or go to l.a., i stayed here because of the labor-intensive nature of what i do, the fact it is all grant -funded, philanthropic projects and that they are very time-consuming. so i keep my overhead very low here, and it is quite beautiful in southern new hampshire. david: i assume you are walpole, new hampshire's most fam

look back on history. history is really progress. don't worry about things will get better because progress will take care of it capital p progress but aren't things better for this group in that group? yes and you want to know why, because people fought for it and people went out and did something about it and the very people who you think are like radicals today and he would say to them why are you making such a big deal about it? we will do? we will do? we will do anchorman to reform and even incremental reform doesn't happen without lots of people making it happen. lafayette was somebody who from the very beginning of his life and to the end of his life was constantly using his money. he is a very rich guy and he was constantly spending on money on what he caught deemed to be just and noble causes and this time and injured -- energy patronized writers and printing presses. he's trying to spread his ideas and if he got to the point where he believe that things were not progressing fast enough or well enough he was willing to go in

the history books like. what did they teach, what did you have as material to teach you about african-american history. >> not much. i became teacher in charleston in january of 1962. i spent 3 years at brown teaching history. what i did when i was teaching i taught from the newspapers rather than from the textbook. most of my fellow teachers thought that i i was going to get fired but i did not -- [laughter] >> but i never got fired, in fact, i had a hard time keeping people out of my classroom because i felt that history ought to be a part of the living person and to bring those students into history, just think, for example, i was teaching at the time that we had cuban crisis when the russians placed those missiles down in cuba. i was standing to my classroom. what would i say to students, let's talk and when all they saw in the newspapers and videos about were the russians bringing these missiles down to cuba, not far from charleston where they live and so what i did was we would pick up the newspapers a