drew on our sister network, hln. 9:00 p.m. eastern on hln. the duggars are home schooled. up next i'm going to talk to a man who was home schooled in the same program. don't go away. there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips' fiber good gummies plus energy support. it's a new fiber supplement that helps support regularity and includes b vitamins to help convert food to energy. mmmmm, these are good! nice work, phillips! the tasty side of fiber, from phillips'. my school reunion. i don't know. who wants to play in idaho? gotta get milwaukee up to speed. we win in flint, we take the lead. we'll close the deal if we just show... when it's go, go to the new choicehotels.com. the site with the right room, rewards and savings up to 20% when you book direct. choicehotels.com don't just visit orlando visit tripadvisor orlando tripadvisor not only has millions of real travelers reviews and opinions but checks hundreds of websites so people can get the best hotel prices to plan, compare and book the perfect trip visit tripadvisor.com today >>> jim and michelle dug

joining me sarah sidner live in baltimore along with hln legal analyst joey jackson. we in this battle of words already? has it actually becomes battle of paperwork and is there a response from the prosecutor about this demand? >> there's no response yet. the prosecutor has been pretty clear in saying she does not want to try this case in the media. although she did read the charges out in her initial press conference when she announced that she was going to be charging these six officers with very serious charges including second-degree murder. what we have seen is a motion filed, 109 pages, by the attorneys for the six officers and really, what's listed in that, some of the main points have to do with conflicts of interests they see and are alleging, relationships she has, for example, with the attorney for freddie gray's family, relationships she may have with potential witnesses, the fact that her office went in and did its own investigation into the case separate from the police investigation. so there are some things that have come up. even the relationship with

joined now by hln's joey jackson, cleveland attorney walter madison, who represents the tamir rice family out of cleveland and cnn law enforcement analyst cedric alexander. both cedric and walter are here with me in atlanta. let's talk more about the what's next here, joey, because the city says that they are looking into more administrative charges. but is it also likely that the families could pursue some sort of civil suits, given that the family members have expressed their very much disappointed in this. they even allege that the officers lied about the circumstances surrounding the shooting. >> sure, absolutely, fredricka. what will happen is this. we've already heard from the prosecutor, of course, during his press conference in relation to other charges that are forthcoming. apparently we understand that the grand jury has indicted five additional officers, not relating to the shooting but related to the chase and the indictment according to the prosecutor earlier was for dereliction of duty. should that chase have proceeded so there was an actual shooting later on. so there will

with me now you joey jackson, hln's legal analyst and criminal defense attorney. also with me here in baltimore. criminal defense attorney mark o'mara who represented trayvon martin in the george zimmerman case. he's joining us in london and with me is sheryl dorsey. a retired los angeles police sergeant and a member of the national coalition of law enforcement officers for justice. joey let me begin with you first, because i mention there's both relief as well as there is some research. there are many people that we heard from the city who are excited about the idea that there have been charges brought. but there's reserve because anything can happen between now and potential trial. what do you see as the road ahead, as it pertains to these charges? >> sure fredricka. just breaking it down remember it's an indictment. what an indictment is an accusation that says two things one, there's probable cause to believe that a crime was committed and b, that the officers committed it. with it being an accusation it's part of due process, what does due process mean? notic

joining me to talk about this investigation and others the potential charges, hln legal analyst joeyackson, when i circled around that rite aid they were chipping away at the char on one of the entrances with microscopes, at least 30 different officers there. and still, joey jackson, hundreds of people were all over the city, dozens of people may have descended upon that rite aid, how do you get a charge like that to stick in an environment like that? >> now you know that they're looking and the charge you're talking about in terms of the char and everything el, it's the investigation, but now you got to find people and hold them accountable. the attempted murder charge, though, is a bit problematic and here's why. when you charge someone with attempted murder, legally we call it a specific intent crime. what does that mean in engengli? you have to show i intended to kill you for the charge to stick. to be clear, though, when you're looking at an arson charge, arson charges could be punishable by up to 30 year in jail so to the extent that an attempted murder charge may not stick an

let's talk about all this with hln contributor and founder of swagger.nyc.ere. good to have you with us. why are we just finding out about this now? >> you know it's been locked away. "in touch weekly" is the one who put it out there. they confirmed reports through police that in 2006 the family went and talked to police officers about what had happened. the story had been locked away. allegedly, the duggar family spoke to a state trooper who did not decide to push charges on josh duggar. >> a state trooper they knew. >> a state trooper who they knew who now "in touch" reports is in jail for child pornography charges himself. >> we should talk about the responsibility -- of course the responsibility of parents, of law enforcement, but also the responsibility of television networks. a lot of people say tlc put them on the air, right. highly rated show a lot of people watched. do they have any responsibility here? >> here's the thing. i can't confirm that tlc knew exactly what was going on in that family. some people say -- >> we haven't heard they did or didn

. >> hln legal analyst and criminal defense attorney joey jackson, thank you so much. >> a pleasure.ia's bombing of yemen this weekend has the u.n. outraged. we will tell you why one u.n. official is calling it a breach of international law. >>> and we are getting breaking news on the news story we are following. two police officers killed in the line of duty during a traffic stop in mississippi. two men are in custody. we will have the latest in a live report at the top of the hour. ♪so nice, so nice ♪sweet, sweet st. thomas nice♪ ♪so nice, so nice ♪st. croix full of pure vibes ♪so nice, so nice ♪st. john a real paradise ♪so nice, so nice ♪proud to be from the virgin islands♪ ♪and the whole place nice to experience your virgin islands "nice", book one of our packages today. i'm reworking the menu. veggies you're cool... mayo, corn dogs... you are so out of here! ahh... the complete balanced nutrition of great tasting ensure. with nine grams of protein... and 26 vitamins and minerals. and now with... ...twice as much vitamin d ...which up to 90% of people don't get enough of. ohhhhhh

and also joining us criminal defense attorney and hln analyst joey jackson. walt let me start with you, do you know anything about the judge presiding over the case? and what has been the, i guess feel in the community about this particular case? >> well you know the judge has been a fair judge all that i've known. and there's nothing to suggest that he has done or will do anything other than follow the law. the real question is -- what case or matters presented before him for him to make the decision and there's a lot of questions surrounding why only one officer was prosecuted or selected to be indicted. and the particular charge. because there's a serious question about causation. and how, how does any one person know that mr. brelo's bullets were the actual cause of death? or did he actually shoot a dead person? >> that's a good point. i was reading that the defense is arguing this is about 2.6 seconds. that the 2.6 seconds were when he jumped on to the car and the defense claims by that time both were already dead. that's according to a forensic patholog

let's talk to cnn legal analyst mel robins and hln legal analyst joey jackson about this.rowing projectiles at trains, apparently, we have been told is common. so much so it has a nickname "getting rocked." yak tram train might be one of three trains hit by somebody before this crash. we still don't know what caused the derailment obviously. looking at what we know up to this point, what does this mean for the engineer's liability? >> reporter: it's a great question. this is going to be a puzzle that all of these agencies are going to be needing to figure out. you know, the thing that is interesting to me about this and you got the fbi involved, while it does sound, at first watch, like it could be something that is common, you know, that projectiles are being hurled at trains all time, i think the fbi is involved because they are concerned it might be something more nefarious than simply a kid chucking rah rock outside of philadelphia at a train, given the convergence of other trains, that had had the same thing happened in the same vicinity around the same time. so they

joining me now, hln's entertainment and pop culture editor. good to see you, my friend. this is a huge deal for the city of baltimore, but what do you know about the song that he's written? tell me everything you know. >> yes, so this sunday he'll be performing rally for peace. tickets go on sale tonight at live nation at 5:00 p.m. we know he's released a song called baltimore where some lyrics are "enough is enough," "let's put the guns down," enough "freddie grays." unclear who will be joining him besides his backing band. we do know there will be multiple artists that will join him on sunday. that will be announced later. >> he's asking people to come dressed a certain way. >> he wanted everyone to wear gray in honor of freddie gray. that's all we really do know. he recorded the song just last week in minnesota. >> has anyone heard it? >> nobody has actually heard the song. we've only seen lyrics. again, prince has spoken out multiple times on this black lives matter movement. he said like albums and books, black lives still matter. he's one of the few muskical artist

i have joey jackson, criminal defense attorney and hln legal analyst. and sunny hostin, cnn legal analyst and former federal prosecutor. welcome to all of you. martin let me begin with you. tell me what you know. >> well this is coming to us from the lake mary police department. it was about 12:45 it was reported this afternoon when george zimmerman and another man were apparently involved in some sort of altercation. now, the police chief there is insinuating this had been an ongoing dispute. in other words, these two men had words and some kind of exchange in the past. i think one of the witnesses you're going to talk to there was word that a gun was waved by the other man. apparently -- or apparently george zimmerman was waving the gun. george zimmerman was allegedly waving a gun in traffic, and it was at that point the other man fired. now, the bullet went through the windshield of zimmerman's vehicle, we are being told. however, zimmerman was not hit directly by the bullet. he was hit by glass and perhaps other debris inside the vehicle. minor inju

. >> so this things know my lawyers right here, hln legal analyst joey jackson and legal analyst phillip holloway and safety analyst and former faa safety inspector. i need to go to you right off the back. what the attorney said had me wondering about how you stop a train from going 106 miles an hour. that lawyer told george that the last thing his client remembered was quote, trying to reduce the speed. but then when pressed by george, he said he doesn't remember hitting the emergency brake. so, with your knowledge of investigating this kind of an accident, how would an engineer possibly try to reduce speed before say perhaps hitting an emergency brake? >> well, the only thing he could do is reduce the throttle, pull the throttles back which is recorded on the train event recorder. and they will know that later, in fact he did reduce the throttles or when the throttles were put forward, when they were put back. so they'll have a direct reading on to when he actually reduced power versus when he pulled the emergency brake. >> david, if he did that, if he tried to reduce the speed by pull

. >> cnn legal analyst, hln legal analyst joey jackson with us. you have helen prejean on the stand saying dzhokhar tsarnaev is remorseful. the defense would not put dzhokhar tsarnaev on the stand. >> it is him testifying through a nun so that's powerful. as deb says, very limited testimony. it was a major victory for the defense in as much as you have a nun vouching as to the character. he was remorseful. he was approachable. talking about discussions she had with him. at the same time, it was big for the prosecution not allowing the nun to get into the death penalty. the moral underpinnings of the death penalty and why it lacked social value and why we should not impose it. she couldn't get into that. to the extent he was able to redeem him and show remorse for him has to impact the jury. >> the defense has been trying to do that. that's the entire point in the sentencing phase. they called relatives, classmates, people who have known tsarnaev trying to say that he was brainwashed and there are redeeming qualities. do you think the nun, do you t

editor-in-chief of swagger new york.com sean pea kbrar regis, also a contributory our sister network, hlns song and this gesture by prince will have an impact? >> oh absolutely. you know i this eight a lot of people have actually been waiting for an artist like prince an iconic artist like prince to really come out and say something. throughout the last six months we haven't seen very many artists really say much. you know, p. diddy and rick ross put out a song shortly after the death of michael brown "don't shoot," didn't get any radio play didn't go anywhere. for prince to really stand out, put out a song and then fill an entire stadium of 11,000 people this is a big, big statement. i think people are listening. >> prince usually stays out of the political fray though. he is not one of those who usually likes to get in the middle of hot topics. are you surprised to see him do this? >> you know, you know, here and there, prince some of his songs, sign of the times in 1987 did he speak out about aids violence in our communities, drugs, he has done things on nuclear disarmament, a song cal

joining me to talk about this cnn law enforcement analyst harry houck and hln legal analyst and criminalttorney joey jackson. >> good morning. >> nice to see you here. so i'll start with you, joey. at least seven police officers who were involved in this incident invoked their fifth amendment rights. they refused to testify. there were no civilian witnesses. just dozens of police officers who were there on the scene. the cleveland prosecutors blamed the police union for their lack of testimony, and likened these police officers' silence to the actions of quote, an organized crime syndicate. >> ouch. >> that's harsh. >> it is harsh. but carol, that notwithstanding and that's rhetoric and i get that tensions flame high and the prosecutor wants conviction and the defense attorney wants an acquittal. ultimately the judge had a number of a lot of factual information to base the decision upon. let's start understanding that this was a bench trial. what that means is there's no jury and a judge acts as the finder of fact and puts himself in a position of a jury. it's also important to understan

hln's legal analyst joey jackson back with me as well.u first to ask you, what is that odd to see indictments different from the charges? >> no, not necessarily. i think this is certainly a big move towards the prosecution and here's why. with the false imprisonment charge it becomes about the knife because if the knife was legal, then the police say, i didn't falsely imprison anyone. i had a right under a united states supreme court case in 2000 that said if somebody is in a high crime area and flee because it's suggestive of guilt not indixtive, you can chase them pat and frisk them. in order to arrest them they have to have done something of a criminal variety. in the event the knife is legal what did they do as a crime. this takes out that equation because from the prosecution's theory and perspective it is not about the knife it is about the conduct as to freddie gray. how did he end up dead and that's what the charges are about and that's what prosecution is going to be seeking to prove. >> let me -- you make perfect sense as you al

drew pinsky host of hln's "dr. drew." he joins me tonight. dr.the fact that josh duggar hasn't received as far as we know any sort of professional treatment or assessment other than a so-called christian counseling program, which according to "in touch" magazine was really just a family friend who had a construction business does that make any sense to you? >> no. it's actually -- frightens me. the fact that this man is with his own children amongst his siblings who remain at an age which he had targeted in the past with no assessment whatso whatsoever. we have no idea what this potential could be. whether he's continuing to do it or whether he's even treatable. we have no idea. the fact that there was no assessment we can't even discuss treatment, because we don't know what we're dealing. but i can tell you for sure we're not dealing with something that couldn't be associated with profound profound disaster. >> if this is some sort of predilection for children -- >> yes! yes! >> -- this kind of thing, this doesn't just go away. we all know this.

other aspects of the trial, might just impact what the jury decides, cnn legal analyst paul callan and hlnlyst joey jackson. i am always astounded and amazed when we get to hear a defendant's voice in court because so often they will not take the stand and be questioned live. when you have tapes like this how much of an impact does someone who seems somewhat cat ta tonic have when the question, joey jackson, is about your sanity? i think it has an enormous impact. generally a defense attorney may advise their client not to testify for a variety of reasons. this is testimony and testimony being provided to the jury. obviously it's not the type of testimony he's on the witness stand but it's more telling than that because he's in a room and a psychologist is asking him questions. i would be asking if i'm a juror does he seem rationale, lucid, responsive, know the question posed and giving an explanation as to what question is. clearly there he appears to be quite sane. keep in mind, ashleigh, the question is, the ultimate question, were you sane at the time you engaged in this activity. and

with me criminal defense attorney and hln legal analyst, joey jackson. officer, neill franklin. guys thanks for being here. as we hear the drums of the jubilant marching bands that have come to city hall certainly a change of what we've seen the past week. >> very talented by the way. >> very talented and good dancers as well. on a much more serious note look this is a community, many have risen up neill because they said former colleagues of yours, current baltimore police officers do not understand them are not there to help them. and the officers you know their job is to -- is to protect these communities. and frankly, there are a lot of good officers. so i'm wondering how you drudgebridge the gap. it's stunning to me to find there's no official survey that tracks officer-involved killings in this country. >> i did -- i started an online online -- a change.org petition for that. for the justice department to start tracking those killings around the country. because we have no idea of how many are occurring. but, again, that's after the fact. we have t

about these investigations and how it led to these charges, cnn law enforcement analyst tom fuentes, hln legal analyst, joey jackson. so discovery that the public made is that as a result of the freddie gray's death and the police investigation there is a city investigation and then when we heard from the state's attorney she had her own separate investigation, even called upon other independent players. how typical is this from your experience tom, that the city would be blindsided or feel like it didn't know of a separate investigation being taken place? >> i'm not sure how blindsided they were frederica. i think it's common that you would just have -- >> we just heard from the reporter who apparently was with the city investigators. >> took it more that the announcement and the timing might have been something they weren't expecting but the actual -- you know, the separate investigations by baltimore city homicide detectives and baltimore sheriff's office and state's attorney investigators, they are not going to interview exact same witnesses three separate times, monitoring looking a

for that i want to bring in hln legal analyst joey jackson and criminal defense attorney brian claypoolh of you. >> good morning, carol. >> joey i want to start with you because we were talking briefly in the commercial break about how dangerous routine traffic stops can be. >> you know interestingly enough carol, from my earliest days as a prosecutor when the officer would sit across from me and we would write up the charge i would say, so it was a routine traffic stop? and they would remind me that there's nothing at all that's routine about a traffic stop. and even you know it's a bad habit i might say it now and i'm reminded again, but unfortunately, you're reminded through cases like this. where you see it's anything but routine. an officer stops someone, apparently noted something was amiss, because they called for backup and now you have two people dead. so certainly a very dangerous job. and you know now it will move forward where there will be an accountability process and that accountability process starts today in terms of the court appearance when they're brought before the

let's bring in hln legal analyst joey jackson and criminal profiler pat brown.ou change your story over several times, and that information appears in charging documents as contradictory, does that witness have a potential legal problem? >> you know, if you're telling the truth, and this should be a fairly straightforward story if you're telling the truth. if he got a call and said you need to pick up this money and deliver it, there's only going to be one thing that happened, it's hard to get these details completely different each time you tell a story. at the time it was going on. he wasn't in any kind of trauma. he wasn't in a mental state to be so confused. why is this story changing? it's a huge red flag. and obviously, the police are looking at him now as a possible accomplice. >> joey, what do you think? fear, confusion? and about that $40,000 ransom, what does that tell you, what does that amount tell you about wint and the others who could be involved. >> good morning, joe, good morning, pat. >> good morning. >> i think whenever someone changes their s

. >> let's talk about this with hln legal analyst joey jackson right now.oey, i want to make something very, very clear here, this indictment against hardest has nothing to do with any alleged sexual misconduct. he's only being charged with evading the irs. let's focus on those three things we know for certain right now, what is the penalty here, and what do you think they have, based on what you've heard enough to prove it? >> sure, christi, good morning. and absolutely, that's an important distinction to point out. we don't know the specific knit of any alleged misconduct as it related to children. certainly, if they were minors at the time, certainly there would be statute of limitation issues that would be associated with those allegations, so what the fbi did, apparently according to this, we understand he was taking out $50,000 withdrawals from accounts that he owned and controlled. it was his own money. however, hour reporting requirements the statute provides if you take out as an individual, over $10,000, the bank has an obligation to report. appar

nancy you host "nancy grace" on hln. what's your take?a dustin's case. she had chemotherapy. that was her last chance at having children. unlike this case where nick loeb is 39 years old and is fully capable of having more children. not only that in carla's case there was no written clause. in sofia vergara's case there's a document they both signed that said you cannot go full term with these embryos unless both parties agree. also onion crunch. i think this is all a p.r. ploy for nick loeb laugh if you want, but remember he reportedly tried to sneak onion crunch into the white house. that's his product. he's getting tons of p.r. off of this for his product. >> nancy just gave him a little more. um the -- look this is not a closed case. as far as i'm concerned. >> i had to look it up and find out what it is. >> this isn't a closed case. number one, the contract is so clear. he says,s the not a contract. it was just a form i filled out. sorry, but, you both signed it. you didn't just sign you it. they force you to initial it again and aga

. >> i want to bring in cnn legal analyst, i should say hln legal analyst joey jackson. joey you watched this press conference and now what we're seeing is something that comes out of some criticism, and debate back and forth, over the last days. this issue of the knife that freddie gray was carrying when he was arrested. is it a legal knife? is it an ill leaf knifeegal knife? does it really matter. seems marilyn mosby going in the direction of you know what? whether that knife was legal or illegal or the arrest was legal or illegal, the concentration certainly rhetorically more on how he was treated once in custody? >> it appears so. good evening, brianna. absolutely. we should talk about what an indictment is all about. understand as defense lawyers love to point out, an indictment is an accusation. what it really means, there were 23 members assembled and we all should keep in mind the state's attorney is the one who delivered that evidence. in the grand jury they conduct the whole proceeding. there is no judge, no defense attorney. and there's no real cross-examinati

>> let's bring in our justice reporter evan perez, our senior legal analyst, jeffrey toobin and the hlniled by the six police officers charged in freddie gray's death do they have a case? >> i don't think they have a case. in the ferguson matter the death of michael brown. everyone was outraged that the prosecutor mr. mccullough, had a conflict of interest because he was on the same side as the cops. i think these prosecutors, they are elected, it is understood under certain circumstances that they will prosecute the police. they get campaign contributions from lawyers who have practices before before them. that's just how our system is set up. based on the facts that are available now, i don't see any conflict of interest that would justify taking her off the case. >> much more to discuss, we'll take a quick break and be right back. if you're running a business legalzoom has your back. over the last 10 years we've helped one million business owners get started. visit legalzoom today for the legal help you need to start and run your business. legalzoom. legal help is here. i have type 2

hln legal analyst joey jackson, walter madison, and cnn law enforcement analyst cedric alexander alltty remarkable things coming from the mayor, as well as the police chief, calvin williams. from the mayor, just to reiterate his words earlier, he said it is difficult to accept the legal analysis and say that should be the end of it. he says there is more work to be done which in large part underscores why there will now be some administrative charges that the cleveland police chief spelled out. what does that tell you about the road ahead for these police officers? the police chief even riddled the fa kt thatct that 72 officers have been suspended without pay. that's from one day to 30 days. there were term nargssinations doo he demotions. and more. >> there were over 100 shots fired and two people died. that's hard to explain to anybody. in this particular case one individual could not be charged merely because what court is saying they just couldn't put it on him. there were clearly a series of shots, a number of individuals involved. what happened on that day quite frankly is horr

joining us criminal defense attorney hln legal analyst joey jackson along with the former assistant degreerfbi, joe fuentes. what's your reaction to what the police commissioner anthony batts just told our own evan perez. >> i'm not surprised at all for the following reasons that he wouldn't be given a bigger heads up in being notified about the charges. it's very important that the state's attorney be viewed as independent. and it's important that she allows the community to know that she works for them. she works for the state. she does not work for the commissioner. number two, it's important that she not be seen as incahoots in any way, as having consulted him in any way. and number three, in order to maintain the public trust and integrity of her office, she needed to move forward and she needed to really pursue this investigation in a way that didn't entangle the police department in it. in terms of the commissioner being surprised by the charges, that's a little surprising to me in that clearly, you know i believe he would have known something was forthcoming with regard to the event

joining us the criminal defense attorney and hln legal analyst joey jackson the president of the nationalcement executives. the cnn law enforcement analyst don lemon and cnn senior analyst jeffrey toobin. let me go around and get all of your reaction. don, first to you. what did you think? >> i think right now i -- my heart goes out to the family because i know they're grieving you know and one can only imagine that you're going to get something from this event to try to make it better some salve, some something. and then nothing comes of it. so first of all, i just want to say that my heart goes out to the family. and i think any human being regardless of what you think about what happened to tony robinson, you can't help but deal with that. but i would not want to be ishmail ozane right now. i know you said quickly. this is why i wouldn't want to be him. he said that right now, he said i would not- basically said it's not going to change anything when it comes to racial disparities or to the justice system. he said that it was based on facts and not based on emotion. and so he is walkin

let's bring in hln legal analyst joey jackson. also with me a former police officer himself, also former fbi assistant director and cnn law enforcement analyst tom fuentes. joey let me begin with you. are you -- just your reaction to hearing what the attorney for the officer had to say there. >> i mean listen these trials are always hard-fought battles and i get that but the judge could have went either way. you can do the most fabulous lawyering in the universe and lose a case. you can do the worst lawyering and win a case. it comes down to this poppy. whenever you have a bench trial, remember that the judge is operating as the trier of fact and the concluder of law. so the judge is putting himself in the position of a jury and the judge is processing those facts. as the judge evaluated and went through the opinion, in giving the opinion, remember he discredited some expert testimony. that was very critical because it was expert testimony which would tending to show that the fatal shot was indeed fired by brelo. if you come to th

joining us to debate this is hln legal analyst and criminal defense attorney joey jackson and cnn legalfense attorney danny savalos. does this put to rest the idea she overreached and went overboard in charging these officers with manslaughter? >> a trial will put it to rest but this goes a long way certainly corroborating what her theory of the case is although there were some alterations on it. understand it's not a surprise really three reasons. one of course is the standard of proof here simply is there reasonable cause to believe there was a crime committed and b did these officers commit it. and certainly she controls the manner and method of the grand jury no judge in there. we have to remember with 23 members of the grand jury alisyn only 12 of which need to be you know really convinced that there was something amiss here. it's no surprise. but this certainly corroborates her theory to this poipt. a trial will certainly see whether or not she's correct. >> danny, do you agree this was no surprise? >> it's not a surprise because it is exceedingly easy as we have said many times i

we want to discuss this further with former hln analyst joey jackson and mel robbins.st, why is an automatic appeal sentence in cases such as this? >> good morning, christi, and good morning, mel. the death penalty is the appellate process. even before you get there, what you're going to see is you're going to see a flurry of post trial motions by the attorneys. what does that mean? the first thing is inside baseball. there may be a number of technical things that went on in that courtroom that are not so much exposed to the public and for us. but attorneys for him feel are problematic enough to get the judge to perhaps vacate the sentence some in some way. certainly that's a hail mary, but it's something they're going to do. another thing they're going to do in the way of appeals, remember, the defense wanted that case moved out of boston. felt it was too close to home. couldn't get a fair trial there. they expressed upon that. the judge ruled the case, the judge said no went to the appellate court, said we're struggle here. i think you'll see appeals predicated on th

here to weigh-in attorney and radio host mel ivory and hln legal analyst and criminal defense attorneyre again with george zimmerman in the news? >> i was not surprised at all. certainly he's been in the spotlight. he continues to be in the spotlight. apparently he likes the spotlight. and as a result was just another day in paradise. but here's the issue. the issue really is not so much he's been embroiled in past instances because every case has to be judged on the merits of that case. >> absolutely. >> so what the attorneys will say in the event he was braugtd forward even though he was the one shot at but in the oechbt he was waving that gun and menacing that other person leading that other person to believe they needed to let off a round before he let off a round on him, these past instances of his misconduct may never see a light of day in the courtroom because of the fact they go to bad character, propensity and -- >> bad character and propensity. mo i want you to listen how zimmerman's lawyer described the confrontation. play the sound and i want your reaction. >> this fellow w

let's bring in hln analyst joey jackson and also joining us, retired chief deputy u.s.ith us this morning. matthew, i want to start with you. is it the right call, the nine firings that have happened? >> well, i think if it happened on january 1st, by now i would think they would know exactly or pretty close to what had happened. so yeah, i go along with that if the justice system down there decided the deputies are in the wrong, yeah, they made the right move. >> let's talk about the timing, joey. two of the deputies had been on paid leave for several months now. there were nine firings in total. is there a suggestion here or is it implicit that these firings come now and soon we should expect charges, or is that not often the case? >> you know, it certainly could be the case, victor. here's why. good morning to you and good morning to matthew. certainly after you look at an incident that happened on january 1st and there's an investigation that unfolds thereafter and people many times could say if you're representing the officers that, hey, there's a rush to judgment,

by skype, gail saltz, author of "the psychology of living a lie" and hln legal analyst, joey jackson.does it show about holmes' frame of mind ahead of the killings would you say? >> what it shows to me is that there's areally significant leakage in terms of his homicidal i'dation and it goes back into time according to what he's writing, and he talks in parts in a logical way, as he lays out what's a good venue, what's not a good venue. this is leakage, though. and what's important is that this writing is not dynamic. so the next step the most logical step you have to sit down and talk to the person and determine, do you know the difference between right and wrong? did you understand the consequences of your behavior? so his journal is a tremendous jumping off point, but you have to go further than that. >> and, just talking about some of the things in the journal, a desire to kill violent thoughts obsession with killing, do the contents of that notebook notebook tell you whether or not holmes could meet the legal standard of insanity in this case? >> they don't tell you one way or th