but nonetheless, if you read hofstadter, he was certainly in what we would associate. i mean, he was interested in the rise of the radical. he was interested, you know, he of excoriated populism of the late century for its negative features, being backward looking, xenophobic, anti-semitic which were aspec of the movement but tended to be, you ow, sort of relatively so. i do think that, you know, i would certainly encourage anyone to read hofstadter book and, but also to recognize that anti-intellectual realism is kind of a large and potentially term. yeah and, you know, one other question is, can both liberals liberals be anti intellectual? but i want i want to just push you on one thing that you mentioned, but i'd like you to address more directly, and that is the relationship between what we would call mainstream conservative ism and illiberalism i, i couldn't help but mention a wonderful phrase from my former wonderful colleague marilyn young, who i can't remember. she said it or ote it, but she said, i where is the ruling class now that we need them? the point bei