holbrook, believing he was the victim, called 911 report the incident.espite the flat tire, the other man drove to an emergency room where he died three hours later. >> i don't know that i could have done anything different to protect my life in that parking lot on that day than what i did because i had to make a choice, and that choice is what i have to live with. holbrook later learned the man was a convicted felon who had recently been released from prison. he says he acted in self-defense. but was charged with first-degree murder. he pled not guilty and will soon begin a jury trial. >> i think i've done what normal human being would do if they were put in the same situation. everyone wants to survive. people inherently need to defend theirself, and i had to go home to my wife at the end of the day. and one day i hope to do that. >> coming up -- >> i have been preparing mentally for the worst which is obviously going to prison. >> after two years in jail, cort holbrook's murder trial begins and -- >> calls me a science project. >> a science project. s

with holbrook being in here, it's his first time but it's a serious charge.why he's placed in here. >> holbrook has been incarcerated for the two years leading up to his trial because he could not make the $3 million bail set by the judge. he thinks one reason it was so high was because of the tattoos he acquired ten years earlier. >> i think these tattoos probably got me the most trouble. that's life. when you're born and these are the cards that you're dealt during life. and there's a queen of hearts for my wife. a two of diamonds for my twin boys. four of clubs for my dogs and an a's for me. >> the skeleton is life? >> represents life and death. something -- something common everybody mythological times. you know? >> that one probe got me in the most trouble. i've got flaming skulls that are kind of in the genre of ed harding or his type of artwork. they're just flaming skulls like i said, and yeah, they do have some bling here. so they were rich pirates. the d.a. at the time quickly seized upon how negative that will particular tattoo looked and that i mu

holbrook says he came out on the losing end of a fistfight and then stabbed the man in self-defense. >> that's how i'm here. not because i'm a bad person or or i'm a violent person because i'm not. i'm here because of a very bad situation that in my opinion didn't have a winning scenario. not with the individual that wanted to do me damage. >> holbrook, a former software engineer, is married with twin sons. he spent two years at santa rita waiting for his trial to get under way. >> two years is a long time to wait to see if you're really guilty of a crime. you know what i mean? so it kind of grates on you after awhile. an individual like myself stands out pretty plainly. i don't have a swagger like an inmate or a convict. i think i'm well spoken. i'm pretty quiet. i don't put myself out there in people's faces typically. i don't cause problems. >> holbrook is -- he's a different breed compared to most of the other guys in here >> he looks out of place but he's adapted and he's kind of got to know how everything works and what's going on, you know, with the politics in the pod and eve

and holbrook used to say this too, richard holbrook. >> rose: he didn't get along with him. >> no. but i think holbrook recognized his color political ability to maneuver, to debate, to get what he wanted so that can be frustrating i think for the west. for a long time the bush administration found he was the yes man, he did as they said. he was easily led. he went along with everything the whole western project and then i think he got very very disillusioned with the west and with americans in particular. especially over civilian casualties as you know but also over the reluctance of the west to confront pakistan and what was going on. that really turned karzai against the west. he became disillusioned. i saw him fatigued just last week and he went on to the same thing saying that he thinks america is against him trying to stuff his efforts to make peace with the taliban and so on. so a lot of that is past the peak and it's become sort of a personal vendetta now again the west. i think he feels betrayed and badly used. and so that he cannot get over. but i think his ability to man

we will probably reflect a good holbrook used to say this. >> he did not get along with him. >> he recognized his clever political ability to maneuver, to debate, to get what he wanted. that can be frustrating. for a long time, the bush administration found that he was a yes man. he was easily led. he went along with the entire western project. then i think he got very disillusioned with the west and americans in particular. there was also the dense of confronting karzai about what was going on. he became disillusioned. he went on the same thing. he thinks america is against him, trying to stop his efforts to make peace with the taliban a lot of that is question and it has become a personal vendetta against the west. he feels betrayed, badly used. he cannot get over that. his ability to move through and survive is amazing. he's the longest standing leader of afghanistan after the king. for a long time, he stayed on the hell man survived while not having a knife in the back. a lot of former leaders -- >> america believes still strongly that he is corrupt. >> he's not a bad man. he's one of the

but at the same time holbrooke put a single on it. they were fighting the wrong enemy in the wrong country. surely when you fight a war you have to go to the source which was across the border in pakistan and that's where al-qaeda had taken refuge after 9/11, after the american intervention. within months they moved across the border into the pakistan tribal areas. in some of these areas you are looking at. the taliban as well who have given sanctuary all through the '90s, they also moved across the border and they started to regroup. as i reported in afghanistan in the early years after 9/11, i started to hear this from all the afghans. i was following in the battlefields, you know, the real problem. so i went over to pakistan and started reporting there. i found talibans hiding and then they started regrouping, started getting more confident. they started moving around, and i spent a lot of time in baluchistan which is an area that will a multi-about. there's unbelievable things going on there on many levels. and there's a great con

tell the story about when you were at the age society and holbrook was there, tom preston was introducing you and you all were all backstage and karzai was there. >> >> rose: you were not there but karzai knew tom preston, because tom told him was a friend of yours and top was going to introduce karzai. >> that's right so holbrook goes to hamid karzai and this is tom a friend of saddam hussein and president karzai goes absolutely nuts you know that man is not a patriot. >> rose: a good businessman but -- >> but, you know and this was because in the early dade we wanted to find out as to why the taliban were sort of in terms of their operation why do they have, you know, a support base in the country and the reason why is because the government was so predatory, so corrupt that the taliban has reemerged so we did stories on that and labels me as a pro taliban guy which is not the case how much of the country support the taliban. >> less than ten percent, less than ten percent, we did a comprehensive survey of 4,000 people face to face across the country, less than ten percent of the popula

policy generally once to come up with big plans, the big solutions it is not an accident that richard holbrooke was in the state department pushing for what i would say is save more activist policy the and found himself rather unwelcome in the obama administration and arguing for the policy based on the previous clinton administration before the bush administration before the retrenchment of the obama administration. but it is often through the state department when i worked in the state department in different presidencies of reagan and clinton, of course, you have different perspectives but the state department is generally for a large role for the united states with international affairs a larger role for them. simple as that. more complicated than that the you put it that simple and not be so wrong. afghanistan your chronicle of your policy makes me want to repeat who said american policy does not change? does continuity is not a source of success in afghanistan but characteristic of its. to more specifically how it maximalist responses? it depends on the challenge. that is thought to be be

. >> tell the story of when you society, richard holbrook was there, and you were backstage. karzai was there. you were not there. karzai new that tom preston, he was a friend of yours. he was going to interview karzai. >> that is right. he says this is tom preston. of saad mohseni. he goes nuts. that is not a patriot. out as to whyind the taliban, in terms of their operations, why did they have a support base in the country? the reason was because the government was so corrupt. the taliban had reemerged. we did stories on that. he labeled me as pro-taliban. >> how much of the country supports the taliban question >> less than 10%. peoplea survey of 4000 face-to-face across the country. less than 10% of the population. they do not have a base inside the country. paid? they who makes it the taliban? students have been brainwashed. there is no shortage of poor, impoverished young men living on both sides of the border in pakistan, getting funding from .ifferent groups >> karzai would not sign a security agreement. >> yes. >> at the same time both candidates leading will support

richard holbrook, working on behalf of the obama administration tried to get other people to run against president karzai. there was a reason for that because they wanted to see a vigorous afghan democracy, but there was the position that we really wanted to see president karzai defeated. robert gates, in his book, basically said as much. they wanted to send somebody to defeat karzai because they did not want him. but those kinds of disagreements, when they are aired in public, such as in esther gates and his otherwise fine book, are memorable in afghanistan. they read our press. we have public disagreements with the afghan president, it is something that contributes to a negative relationship. i will not put all of this on mr. karzai. he has made some big mistakes and failed to rein in the corruption, including from his own family, but we contributed as well and we need a fresh start. host: we have this tweet, from the pottery barn theory, we broke it so we have to pay to fix it. and we brokeke it, it in the 1980's for strategic reasons. the soviets broke it, they invaded afghanistan. a

you worked for hillary clinton, and you interviewed with richard holbrooke to get job.iews. hillary clinton -- when he died, he was this sort of elder statesman, and he died tragically while he was trying to solve the war in afghanistan. go figure. that's stressful. and she told the story, at his funeral, of him following her into a ladies' room in pakistan. similarly, for my job interview at the state department, he was -- you know, we went up. we talked to secretary clinton. he threw his luggage at me. walked all the way to georgetown. i had been on crutches for a while, and he knew this, and i'm hobbling after him with his luggage. then he proceeds to go into the bathroom. and i'm like, "whoa, not that kind of a guy." not going to do that kind of an interview. and he's throwing me hardball questions about afghanistan. gets into the shower. the door is, like, ajar. i'm turning away. he conducts the entire interview while showering. without breaking stride in this incredible narrative about afghanistan and the details of troop deployments, and should we escalate, shoul

richard holbrook, working on behalf of the obama administration tried to get other people to run against president karzai. there was a reason for that because they wanted to see a vigorous afghan democracy, but there was the position that we really wanted to see president karzai defeated. robert gates, in his book, basically said as much. they wanted to send somebody to defeat karzai because they did not want him. but those kinds of disagreements, when they are aired in public, such as in esther gates and his otherwise fine book, are memorable in afghanistan. they read our press. we have public disagreements with the afghan president, it is something that contributes to a negative relationship. i will not put all of this on mr. karzai. he has made some big mistakes and failed to rein in the corruption, including from his own family, but we contributed as well and we need a fresh start. host: we have this tweet, from the pottery barn theory, we broke it so we have to pay to fix it. and we brokeke it, it in the 1980's for strategic reasons. the soviets broke it, they invaded afghanistan. a

that was steve holbrook, the nra's second amendment attorney and scholar. show,as on the nra radio talking to and responding to with the former justice john paul stevens had to say in his new book, specifically on the second amendment. we are having you weigh in on that this morning. here is an e-mail from dan saying -- that is dan on e-mail. you can send us an e-mail at journal@c-span.org. from maine, and independent caller. gun and idon't own a don't want one. i do believe in the second amendment. i have ptsd. i know my potential. if they took an inventory on how many people were killed by people,t ways, stabbing theyhe guy who shot up -- are not checking these people out. there are very responsible people, like i believe i am in i don't want to own a gun and that it says. amendment butd they also get into the speech amendment, the first amendment. you have to watch what you say over time. what do they want to do with this constitution? to they want to throw it out the window? thank you very much. this is what former justice stevens opposes in his books -

massive, massive fraud it's because karzai didn't feel the need to do it last time he thought dic holbrook who was running policy and the u.s. were out to get him this time he is comfortable with the three front-runners, i'm told. so he didn't have a huge incentive to do it and he has told a lot of people, and again we don't know whether to believe this, that he sees it as part of his legacy his first peaceful ever transition of power. so i think that yes, the u.s. is looking forward to karzai's success, also pleasantly surprised that there has been -- >> and the other thing karzai has done is repeatedly refused to sign the security agreement which everybody is kind of waiting for. and u.s. officials said should have been done before this election so now there has been a election, do you assume there is going to be a new leader, what are the prospects for the bilateral security agreement? >> well, every single one of the 12 or 13 candidates indicated they would sign it they thought it was essential for afghan security to have this sort of residual u.s. force. and also, frankly, for a lot o

household broke famously -- hal holbrook famously said in the garage scene in "all the n," follow the money. see if anyone is locked up for a particular candidate. and follow the travel. ask people in iowa, new hampshire, and south carolina who they have met lately. that will give you some idea of how the 2016 field is shaping up, at least in the minds of people who think they are credible candidates. does not mean they will be. it means they are testing the waters. pointedlleague daniel out, if you were doing the same exercise early on, when then former mayor rudy giuliani was considered the front-runner for the republican nomination, you would have thought he had it locked up. conventional wisdom does not exist in this process. we will prove that by sharing our unconventional wisdom today. thank you very much. [applause] >> mary, go ahead. >> wonderful to be with you. my crystal ball is a little bit error. it reads in headlines. i will share six this morning. agree that welso will see how it goes. the funny thing about predictions is, you help enough time has passed no one remembers

household broke famously -- hal holbrook famously said in the garage scene in "all the n," follow the money. see if anyone is locked up for a particular candidate. and follow the travel. ask people in iowa, new hampshire, and south carolina who they have met lately. that will give you some idea of how the 2016 field is shaping up, at least in the minds of people who think they are credible candidates. does not mean they will be. it means they are testing the waters. pointedlleague daniel out, if you were doing the same exercise early on, when then former mayor rudy giuliani was considered the front-runner for the republican nomination, you would have thought he had it locked up. conventional wisdom does not exist in this process. we will prove that by sharing our unconventional wisdom today. thank you very much. [applause] >> mary, go ahead. >> wonderful to be with you. my crystal ball is a little bit error. it reads in headlines. i will share six this morning. agree that welso will see how it goes. the funny thing about predictions is, you help enough time has passed no one remembers

early state trips and, again, if you want to follow this, i'll tell you follow the money as hal holbrookfamously said in that garage scene in "all the president's men." see where the early donors are going and see if anyone is locked up for a particular presidential candidate. and follow the travel. ask the people of iowa, new hampshire and south carolina who they've met lately. and that'll give you some idea of how the 2016 field is shaping up at least in the minds of people who think they're credible candidates. doesn't mean they will be, it means that they're testing the waters. and as my colleague daniel pointed out, if you were doing this same exercise early on when then-former mayor rudy giuliani was considered the front runner for the republican nomination, you would have thought based on press accounts he had it locked up. so, again with, conventional wisdom does not exist in this process, and we will prove that by sharing our unconventional wisdom today. thank you very much. [laughter] [applause] >> mary? go ahead. >> good morning, everybody. wonderful to be with you. my crystal

that's how holbrooke famously said in the garage scene in all the presidents seem to follow the money so see where the early donors are going and see if anyone is locked up for a particular presidential candidate come and follow the travel. ask people in iowa, new hampshire and south carolina who they have met lately. that will give you some idea about the 2016 field is shaping up, at least in the minds of people who think they are credible candidates. doesn't mean it will be. it means they're testing the waters. as my colleague daniel pointed out, if you are doing the same exercise early on when then former mayor rudy giuliani, sort of the front runner for the republican nomination, you would have thought based on press accounts had it locked up. so again conventional wisdom does not exist in this process and we will prove that by sharing our unconventional wisdom today. thank you very much. [applause] >> wonderful to be with you. my crystal ball is a little bit more clear. it reads in headlines. i'm going to share six of them with you this morning, and that's it, i also agree that w

richard holbrook, working on behalf of the obama administration tried to get other people to run against president karzai. there was a reason for that because they wanted to see a vigorous afghan democracy, but there was the position that we really wanted to see president karzai defeated. robert gates, in his book, basically said as much. they wanted to send somebody to defeat karzai because they did not want him. but those kinds of disagreements, when they are aired in public, such as in esther gates and his otherwise fine book, are memorable in afghanistan. they read our press. we have public disagreements with the afghan president, it is something that contributes to a negative relationship. i will not put all of this on mr. karzai. he has made some big mistakes and failed to rein in the corruption including from his own family, but we contributed as well and we need a fresh start. host: we have this tweet, from the pottery barn theory, we broke it so we have to pay to fix it. guest: we broke it and we broke it in the 1980's for strategic reasons. the soviets broke it, they invaded af