who is josh holley to weaponize his education and experience as a court clerk at the supreme court to suggest that this is the place to overturn the will of the people? that is not the job. his own colleague knows better. rand paul i heard on fox news earlier saying this is not a protest. it is not an objection. it is attempt for congress to overturn the will of the states. his political play is plain. i think he wants to be president one day. and he made a calculation in his very ambitious way that he was going to try to stay close to donald trump and to trumpism, whether it's truthful or not and ride it as far as he could, and he is accountable in part for what he's wrought and for what all of these lies have wrought, and that is the events of today. that is what's playing. if you want to be serious, if you want to be an elected representative of the united states and you want to be serious, then you can take up after an election that has been certified and you can take it up with the state legislatures. i thought he was a republican and believed in state's rights. go lobby the stat

senator holley and donald trump have been pushing for changes to section 230.e is the intellectual inconsistency of saying we want to remove liability protections from social media and then complaining when social media says, okay, well, we're going to police our platforms and uphold our terms of service you're going to get more policing of platforms. decide what you want >> everybody would be off these platforms. 230 needs to be reformed i don't think he's read it he doesn't understand at all josh holley does understand it he's a trained lawyer. he understands what he's saying. in this case he has some other problems going on over to -- some other issues to deal with including that really unfortunate fist pump that he managed to do at the very wrong time he understands that it needs to be reformed. the idea to call to get rid of it is dumb you have to get a bipartisan group of people just like we would talk about the power of oil, the power of trades and how do we push innovation, that the marketplace isn't dominated by one player that will get to the heart of

his allies in the house planning to object to the electoral college count on wednesday senator josh holley said he'll sign on forcing an up or down vote on whether president-elect joe biden won. a dozen more republican senators say they'll vote to object unless there's a commission to study the results. >> we ought to have a fair inquiry, a fair audit into the results. >> reporter: establishment republicans ar warning objecting is a political an moral disaster mitch mcconnell calling it a vote of conscience and the most consequential vote i have ever cast. mitt romney, the republican presidential nominee in 2012, said it dangerously threatens the republic liz cheney the number three house republican writing in a blistering 21-page memo to her colleagues sunday that objectin violates republican core beliefs and would set an exceptionally dangerous precedent. president trump quickly attacking republicans wh don't support the effort labeling them the surrender caucus. >> if members of congress take up false claims of voter fraud and try to use those to overturn an election they do not like th

united states but really astonishing are the people who have not lost touch with reality ted cruz josh holley senators of the united states who are backing up donald trump knowing there is no basis for believing that donald trump has won this election great to get your fees lawrence lessig there joining us from brookline massachusetts thank you very much indeed thank you. as for you some other news now an explosion of a fuel deputy on the syrian lebanese border has injured at least 10 people lebanon's army says it happened at a warehouse on the syrian side of the border you know the lebanese town and of course are local media reports in the blast was coles by an electrical problem. hospitals in britain are preparing to start rolling out it's the oxford astra zeneca vaccine the soon as monday that vaccine and the one from pfizer are both been approved in the u.k. for now though prime minister boris johnson is warning of tougher restrictions as infections keep searching for the nearly 60000 new cases counted on saturday that's another record jump and this graph shows you just how bad the situat

state of missouri josh holley who says that he will also object so what they're trying to do is trigger a debate that we expect will be lengthy at least 2 hours and what this will ultimately do is really raise a couple of issues that they say are important that not only do they allege that there has been voter fraud something we should point out that the courts have rejected all the way up to the supreme court but they believe that there has been irregularities that need to be noted and so as a result they're putting this out for congress in order to try and push it to act if not overturn the results of the 2020 vote a commune i suppose the big question really that is so why bother with all of this of it's doomed to failure anyway. that's what so many in the united states are saying even members of the republican party including mitch mcconnell the top republican in the u.s. senate who in fact is discouraging republicans from doing this but they're ignoring that advice and now the reason they say that they are is because they're trying to get this on record and what they say is that thi

spearheading this effort to try to delay joe biden's certification and those senators are ted cruz and josh holley who have been conspicuously silent about their intentions following the rioting it remains to be seen whether. or not they will continue to object to other states electoral college votes as those are counted but what is undeniable is the pressure that is on not only those objecting republicans but on president trump himself we know that the 1st lady's chief of staff in the white house has resigned as a direct. result of the violence that happened today we know twitter has locked trump's account for 12 hours and removed his tweets that continue to sympathize with and even praise these rioters and then we have more and more talk of invoking the 25th amendment what is that it is having the vice president and the members of congress of the president's cabinet agreeing to remove the president from office the only apply when a tie at a time when he is incapacitated to carry out his duties and the latest person in support of that idea is the c.e.o. of the national association of manufacturer

i don't know of anyone defending him thus far i have not seen comments from senator john holley who opened up this pandora's box of a january 6th challenge i have not seen senator ted cruz or senator marsha blackburn and james lankford and any of the others comment i know that ted cruz was trying to avoid answering questions yesterday about this i don't think they've necessarily gone away and certainly i think every one of them if i were a political advisor to them i would be telling them you know carve out a different course now because they're on dangerous ground because the president has undermined their ability to point to what they were saying were suspicious circumstances in other states even though no courts and the attorney general of the united states working for donald trump did not find any voting or reg irregularities at scale that could be good certainly after seeing an attorney general barr walked away from this and said there's nothing there and so for senators to do this when now the only tangible evidence that we see of voting manipulation and election manipulation is from

and followers of donald trump to be caught in a trap by him because i don't see any way that josh holley the senator from missouri where ted cruz the senator from texas can go out there and stand by what the president was doing with brad raffensperger steve stay with us if you can because we're going to listen now to the entire why. post compilation of that phone call so just a reminder to the viewers this is a phone call between president trump and the georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger and and again i remind al-jazeera has not been able to independently authenticate this recording the people of georgia are angry and these numbers are going to be repeated on monday night along with others that we're going to have by that time which are much more substantial even and the people of georgia are angry the people of the country are angry and is nothing wrong with saying that you know. 2 2 that you've recalculated well mr president the challenge that you have is the data you have is wrong now do you think it's possible that they shredded ballots in 3 fulton county because that's wh

no uncertain terms but i'd be very careful about making the situation worse when you look at josh holley walking along senator josh ali walking on and giving you know a big a go go go get him to the protesters around the senate versus other republican senators last night being applauded on the floor by democrats and republicans for saying we have to stop this divide how where is the republican party go does it expelled q. and on types does it keep them in the tent what's the if you are part of the architecture of republicanism are you worried about the health of the party can can the good parts of the party we claim it. well listen i think the party exists not necessarily because the leaders but because of the followers and so as you know you have to be very careful not to sue kind of lead a party in a place where the followers are not going to go i do think that there needs to be. better communication a little more straight talk with with our voters i think we need to do a better job of bedding down conspiracy theories which in fact both sides you know i've. been to seriously there is r

electoral college votes for joe biden this is something that was forecasted we saw coming as senator josh holley one of trump's most fiercest defenders said he would object to this you may have heard in this roll call earlier up to now there were actually several states that house republicans objected to including michigan and georgia and of that however failing to have even one senator sign on to those objections they were not passed to be debated upon pennsylvania though is the 2nd state following arizona has both support from a senator and from in this case 80 members of the house all republicans who are are voicing this objection so now by law we're what we're seeing is this joint session of congress. now separate into the 2 separate chambers of course either of these are the same chambers where we saw members sheltering in place and be evacuated some hours ago during that rioting when violence gripped the national capital so now you have to see the sessions being called back in the various chambers and it could be still more hours dragging on of this debate that will ultimately as i've been

november 5 mass shooting incident which is what we are about to talk about and i have here with me joe holley. is a longtimetexan, former washington post reporter and pulitzer prizefinalist for his editorial on gun culture, law and gun tragedies in texas and we're here because he just wrote a new book . he's just offeredit called "sutherland springs: god, guns and hope in a texas town" . and in it he gets incredibly close , detailed about the mass shooting that happened in that community and then goes through and gets to know the people and we learn more about the culture of sutherland springs and how they kind of heal and recovered after the tragedy but joe, welcome. >> nice to see you again. i want to tell everybody that you and i spent more sundaes in church in sutherland springs then we could have imagined because both of us covered i guess you would say the aftermath of that horrible tragedy that those people who are nowour friends and acquaintances experienced . so we got to know each other well, sylvia working for the express news and me writing the book . she and her photographer lisa

holley who have seen in 2020 of not earlier is you can lose an election, lie fraud, and try to win withat turns to be the alternative where republicans stand. in fairness there's a third, mache smaller group you can call the honorable few. will be interesting to watch whether the gamers led by mr. mcconnell shift away from the breakers and towards the honorable few. the dark scenario is that the breakers, the people who want to repeat 2020 in 2024 that they manage to get hold of this big lie about how people who voted for trump is a victim and trump is a victim an they had try to ride that big lie to office themselves in 2024. >> i wonder if that big lie is sustainable if people see right through it. let me ask in this way, you also talked about trump's lying, he has small lies, medium-sized lies and the big lie about election fraud, that big lie is going to outlast the trump presidency. what's the impact of that? >> yeah a little lie you might forget, in 20 years make we won't remember that trump claimed that mr. obama was born in africa but we will remember that trump claimed he won t

my action is in the senate wednesday where you have the effort by senator cruz and holley and otherse the outcome of a democratic election and they are just feeding this false narrative from the president. they have from day one. we have to bein as strong as possible for rejecting the overturn of the election. >> it's a question if it goes unchecked, what does that do to our democracy and what president does it set forward for any future presidents? do you think there's something that congress should do about it, of course, georgia congressman hank johnson tweeted last night that this is in his belief a violation of state and federal law calling to censure the president. >> i do think this has the elements of a criminal act and a lot of discussion about that i think the authorities in georgia need to make a determination whether or not to bring the charges. this president is facing a lot of other potential civil and criminal liability when he leaves office, for other acts he's committed, and this is you know going to be part of that review by future administration, but i think or the

senator josh holley has said he will hold up the consideration. because of concerns over the biden immigration plan. democrats have been hoping to move again these security and public safety related nominees as early as thursday or wednesday even. now it looks unlikely to happen in that one case. >> let me ask you if bic the one playing out now. lloyd austin. he would need a waiver to serve as defense secretary. give as you pulse on where members of that committee stand so far? >> the waiver is mostly a formality. i think you will see some defocuses the vote. the house has announced, it who is the pass both chambers, they will vote only thursday afternoon, evening. the senate vote has not yet been scheduled. typically the head of the department of defense is one of the first cabinet nominees to get confirmed. so we would expect to see the democratically controlled senate as it would be tomorrow, move fairly expeditiously. >> and let me ask if you i can about mitch mcconnell. i want to play for you, or tell as you little about that sound bite about

senato senators cruz and holley, they have their own ambitions.it will not work. but the long-term consequences when you have 67% of republicans in america actually believing that there was fraud in this election, against all of the evidence is what concerns many on capitol hill. >> heidi, some are wondering if it could be a squeaker for the speaker, for nancy pelosi, when house leaders vote on their next leader. walk us through what's happening there. >> reporter: she's not being fo formally challenged by anyone. but her opponent is covid. that's because she is operating, now, on a razor-thin margin. the thinnest margin we've seen for any leader in the house. they are concerned about who is going to show for this vote. she can only afford to lose. you assume everybody shows up and votes, they won't. but she could only afford to lose about five members of her conference. last time we had a leadership election, she lost 13. it makes the math uncomfortable. they've been scrambling to make sure they have the votes. she told reporters on monday, quote

almost immediately republicans led by republicans ted cruz and josh holley elected to air ira's electoral -- to arizona's electoral college votes. that meant a debate of up to two hours and this is where things sped up. ed around 1:30, the crowd outside the capitol building grew. the rioters made their way up the steps. today nbc news obtained new footage of this moment. now around the same time as that was happening, suspicious packages were found at the republican and democratic national committee's headquarters. nearby buildings were evacuated and these were later determined to be pipe bombs. inside the capitol building, the senate debate heated up. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell called it, quote, the most important vote i'll ever cast. senator cruz urged his colleagues not to take what he considered the easy route. >> this will be the most important vote i've ever cast. it would be unfair and wrong to disenfranchise american voters and overrule the courts and the states on this extraordinarily thin basis. and i will not pretend such a vote would be a harmless protest gesture w

. >> there have been calls, increased calls for senators ted cruz and josh holley to resign.r censure. what do you think is the appropriate recourse? >> i think they violated their oaths to the constitution. it is very clear that they were participating efforts to overturn our democratic election. i think they should resign. i don't expect them to. and therefore, we will explore different options within the united states senate. for what the sanctions should be for someone who very overtly violates their constitutional obligations. >> i don't know if you had a chance to watch this video that has surfaced from the new yorker of people actually on the floor, rummaging through desks, looking through papers. i think a lot of us watch it and we are disgusted because we see this as the people's house. we believe this constitution is a part of our democracy, that we have some ownership over it. those are not literally our desks or papers. this is the place you go to work. what has it been like seeing this footage of these insurrectionists on the senate floor? >> i have seen some of

more and more democrats in the senate have called for senator cruz and senator holley to either resign or be expelled for their central and now unrepentant role in encouraging these conspiratorial lies about the election result. we don't know what will happen next. we don't know what will happen next even tonight bust republican members of congress are reportedly refusing to go through the new metal detector that has been installed outside the house floor. that includes one new republican member who has promised to carry a gun with her at her new job at the capitol. that's happening tonight. a live question as to whether republican members of congress who openly supported those who attacked the capitol might themselves have brought guns on to the house floor tonight as the house gathers to vote on this 25th amendment constitution. a live question tonight as to whether the conviction of president trump might actually happen in the u.s. senate. either by a dozen and a half republicans voting with democrats to convict him, or just five or six voting to convict and another 20 or so stay ho

no uncertain terms but i'd be very careful about making the situation worse when you look at josh holley walking along senator josh ali walking on and giving you know a big a go go go get him to the protesters around the senate versus other republican senators last night being applauded on the floor by democrats and republicans for saying we have to stop this divide how where is the republican party go does it expelled q. and on types does it keep them in the tent what's the if you are part of the architecture of republicanism are you worried about the health of the party can can the good parts of the party reclaim it. well listen i think the party exists not necessarily because the leaders but because of the followers and so it's a you know you have to be very careful not to to kind of lead a party in a place where the followers are not going to go i do think that there needs to be. better communication a little more straight talk with with our voters i think we need to do a better job of bedding down conspiracy theories which in fact both sides you know i've. been to seriously there is

no uncertain terms but i'd be very careful about making the situation worse when you look at josh holley walking along senator josh ali walking on and giving you know a big a go go go get him to the protesters around the senate versus other republican senators last night being applauded on the floor by democrats and republicans for saying we have to stop this divide how where is the republican party go does it expelled q. and on types does it keep them in the tent what's the if you are part of the architecture of republicanism are you worried about the health of the party can can the good parts of the party we claim it. well as i think the party exists not necessarily because the leaders but because of the followers and so say you know you have to be very careful not to sue kind of lead a party in a place where the followers are not going to go i do think that there needs to be. better communication a little more straight talk with with our voters i think we need to do a better job of bedding down conspiracy theories which in fact both sides you know i've. been to seriously there is runn

you have dan crenshaw and holley and the tab bloids from the right pushing immigration and showing packsf migrants coming from guatemala saying they're on the way to the inauguration. is that where your party wants to be right out of the bat, just beat up on biden as fast as possible because they did it to trump s that the play? >> i think the play for the republicans is a couple things. number one they're going to have to continue to do what mitch mcconnell has been doing, that's telling the truth to the american people that joe biden won the election and he's going to continue to do that. he's obviously none too pleased donald trump and supporters launched an attack on our congress and on our constitution. we have to be honest about that basic threshold question if not how will they trust with position of responsibility ever again. step two is help joe biden get the vaccination process moving as quick as possible. that's the only way to get people back in schools and back to work. number three, i new the parties will have debates over other fracture and go down the list. most policy is

. >> reporter: holley carnright is the ulster county district attorney. >> i said, "well, we're not goingd with any arrest until i have the answer to that. investigators collected dna samples from all the first responders to see if they could have accidentally left their dna at the scene. and they considered another possibility that the dna belonged to an accomplice. >> we were also trying to get samples from people we had identified that were close to nunez. that's a little trickier -- because you just can't walk up and ask for the dna. we call it cast-off dna. and you would conduct a surveillance of those individuals and wait for them to discard an item that would most likely have their dna and then you collect that. >> reporter: what kind of items did you collect? i think there was a cigarette butt and maybe a can of soda. over many months, all the samples were processed, but it turned out to be a complete bust. >> it identified no one. >> reporter: it's not the first responders. it's not gilberto nunez. who is it? >> at that point, i was banging my head against the wall. >> reporter: