>> reporter: what's interesting about holly paz, she was in washington, d.c. and looking over some of these applications, and she handled these for tax exempt status. she looked at 20 to 30 applications in the early going of this situation. what's interesting is that conceivably if you believe what holly paz has to say, this puts this in washington, d.c. there has been a lot of back and forth over who is to blame, the rogue agents in cincinnati. couple weeks ago i looked at the partial transcripts from two cincinnati employees that gave interviews with congressional investigators. they said, you know, that lois lerner, the other irs official in charge of the tax exempt division here, she tried to pin this on cincinnati, and when they saw this, they viewed it as a nuclear strike. paz and her interviews with congressional investigators say dozens of tea party applications sat for a year, and they were waiting for guidance. again, bringing this, if you believe what holly paz says closer to d.c., that's what's key here. it just wasn't something emanating out of ci

anyway, david, thank you, nice to see you. >>> fbi director robert muller over holly paz just last week. congressman jim jordan is demanding answers. his question. why was paz sitting in on the investigation of irs targeting? >> let me ask you a couple of things. is it typically appropriate to have the investigator have one of the central players, ms. holly paz, one of the key players at the tax exempt division, sit in with all interviews with employees in that division is that typically ho with how investigation is done? >> i understand what you are saying about the circumstances. i can't -- >> in your time as an investigator, is that how you would do, sit next to the boss with the person you are trying to get investigation with. >> is it appropriate to have her collect the data the inspector general? >> not familiar with -- >> if that happened, that appropriate? >> i'm not going to speculate. >> the latest irs charade, attempted coverup is growing higher. kelly ayotte joins us. >> nice to see you. >> they are investigating the irs and one person that comes up is this woman named paz.

nice to see you. >> thank you. >> congress grilling fbi director robert mueller over holly paz. jim jordan demanding answers. his question: why was paz sitting in on the investigation at an irs targeting? here's how it all went down. >> well, let me ask you a couple of things. is it typically appropriate for the investigator to have the -- one of the central players in this -- miss holly paz, who was director of one of the key players at the division, sit in on almost all the interviews ins with employees in that division. is that typically how an investigation is done? >> i am not familiar with those circumstances. i understand what you are saying about the circumstance, not being familiar with it -- >> in your time as an investigator, is that how you would do interviews with the boss of the person you are trying to get information from -- is it appropriate -- the inspector general said that our staph -- staff has done, is it appropriate for her to collect the data and give it to the attorney general? >> i am not familiar -- >> if that happened, is that appropriate? >> i am not

holly paz is a scapegoat. there's no way this young girl told cincinnati to start targeting groups. there she is. that's the face of the irs scandal? come on! she really needs to be the whistleblower now. tell us who told you to take the dive for this. >> what do you think, dana? >> i think i wou comment on another part of this, which is the other revelation, steven miller, remember him, who testified, and lois lerner cooked up the pr idea to have her take a plane in question at a conference to get the news out there. what's strange about this, he went to the white house 131 times or more, one for the easter egg roll, the other 129 times we don't know what he was doing. am i to believe this guy, political appointee with that much access to the white house didn't coordinate a communication strategy about an inspector general report they thought was so bad, they kept it from president obama? they should be fired for incompetence. >> that gets you promoted. >> can we point something out, the irs, because of what's going with the irs, they lost the trust of the american people and lost

is directly contrary to what lois lerner said and lois lerner, as we can see, is directly above holly pazknows what holly's role is. does it raise different questions about lois's honesty? >> are you suggesting that lois lerner hasn't told the whole truth? of course. she is lying and i use that word intentionally, from the very beginning. wait she leaked the information this a coordinated q & a session she denied that was arrange bred hand. that was a lie. it was. she has not been telling the truth. the only thing she said before congress under oath, is i will say nothing, though i've done nothing wrong. lois lerner, steven miller, douglas shoeman, they all knew and had opportunity before congress, under oath, to sayre their knowledge of what was going on. there was a probe the ig investigation going on. they knew about the targeting. they fwaailed to mention it und oath to congress. it is systemic, dishonesty throughout the top, and the cover-ups worse than the crime, in this case that's debatable. they are both pretty bad. but cover-up is extensive. >> one wonders when lois lerner told

holly paz is now gone.don't know -- i mean national review online reported that she is a barack obama donor. we know she was in on all these meetings. they don't tell us what does that mean gone? why can't we know about the accountability and whether it's related? why do we have to suppose and wonder? mike, thank you. well with, over the weekend the top democrat on the house oversight committee disputed claims that the irs scandal was connected to washington. maryland congressman elijah cummings irs workers in cincinnati were the ones who initiated the targeting of conservative gruption. he believes this case is now closed. >> based upon everything i have seen the case is solved. and if it were me, i would wrap this case up and move on to be frank with you. >> joining me now to discuss it brad blakeman and dan gerstein president of gotham ghost writers. brad, is he right? >> no. is he far from right. i will tell you he is not the same congressman he was last week when he showed outrage in chapter and verse

we told you about holly paz. she was the director of the rulings and agreement office that was heavily involved in this whole irs scandal and we're told that she oversaw both the tax law specialists who provided guidance to the agents in cincinnati reviewing the processing of tea party applications, among other duties. she was also the one who sat in on all the meetings that the inspector general had with the low level pelosi. she was their boss. he was criticized for that saying if you want to ask the employee who was responsible for all of this, it's probably not a good idea to have -- actually their boss's boss sitting in on the meeting. what if it was her? what are they going to say, right? we told you earlier that she had left the position, but the irs refused to confirm the circumstances. well, she's been fired. >>> meantime today, we are learning that the fbi has yet to contact any, as far as we can tell, of more than two dozen tea party groups who say that they have been targeted by agents working under h

holly paz said she reviewed hundreds of transcripts. has been placed administrative leave. >>> and "superman" brought in $125 million this weekend. that is a new record for highest opening ever in june. the comedy "this in the end" came in second place with just over $20 million, and a thriller "now you see me" finished in third place. i had some friends who wept to see "this is the end," and they say it's pretty funny. >> it looks funny. >>> straight ahead, your monday morning weather. and in sports a rose is a rose is a champion. an english champion wins america's golf championship. english champion wins america's golf championship. mornings are a special time for the two of you... and you can make them even more special... with fancy feast mornings. mornings are delicious protein-rich entrées... with garden veggies and egg. each one perfectly designed... to start her day with a little love. fancy feast mornings gourmet cat food. the best ingredient is love. because vitamin d3 helps bones absorb calcium, caltrate has the highest level

holly paz is based in washington.d congressional investigators she reviewed 20-30 applications going back as far as 2010 and says some of those requests went unanswered for more than a year. we're told paz provided no evidence that senior irs officials ordered agents to target the groups or that anyone in the obama administration outside the agency was involved. still, the admission complicates the earlier claim that is the targeting was limited to a handful of rogue employees in the cincinnati irs office. let's talk about it with jamie weinstein, senior editor of "the daily caller." as this story goes along, we learn more and more new information, and we're finding out that, apparently, it wasn't just these rogue agents in cincinnati, jamie. >> well, honestly, i think this story raises more questions than it answers. certainly, we learn again that it contradicts the narrative that from the beginning this was just, you know, some rogue agents in the cincinnati office. but now we're supposed to believe this bizarre tal

investigator is now focusing on the role of holly paz, a senior irs official based on washington, saying give extra scrutiny to conservative groups. >> she told congressional investigators she reviewed 20 to 30 investigations back to 2010 and some went unanswered for more than a year. >> she sat in on every -- almost every interview the attorney general with

holly paz tells investigators some requests languished for more than a year without action, but provided no evidence that conservative groups seeking tax-exempt status were targeted. >> president obama arrives in northern island this morning, there to attend a summit of the world's leading industrial nations. the president, wife and daughter malia left the u.s. last night. among issues on the summit's agenda are the civil war in syria and free trade between the u.s. and europe. president obama is making a speech today about northern ireland's successful peace pr process. he will meet privately with russian president putin. >> after a surprise victory, iran's newly elected president is making it clear his country's economic problems cannot be solved overnight. during his campaign, he promised more freedom and better relations with the rest of the world. israeli leaders are warning the international community not to ease sanctions against iran. they point out that iran's anti-american supreme leader still has the final say on its nuclear program. >> the white house says it is open to high

that's holly paz and they will handle it. washington will handle it. it was not the same for the left. martha: we watched 6 individuals line up and testify before congress about the years of harassment they underwent. was the same thing experienced by any of these progressive grums that did fall into the dragnet or did those groups get speedy resolution in their tax exempt status? >> if they have the question airs let's see them. i think there is one thing that is wrong that they were listing people. but it's another that they took the action to prevent them. not everyone is qualified to be a 51c3. if you are a liberal political group you are likely not qualified. our clients were waiting for years and they have never gotten an answer. not a yes or no. martha: in a way i think if they were screening for political groups. one of their jobs was to figure out if there was a political affiliation with those groups. if there is a clear political connection they should not receive the tax exempt status. so they need to go through and see who they need to tak

but holly paz said it did go up the food chain. martha: and it corroborates what we heard from if the folks in cincinnati. they said their jaws dropped opened when they heard what lois lerner was saying. >> reporter: we are waiting for the president. the administration is saying it's under congressional investigation so they are not saying anything. martha: the president said it will not stand and wouldn't be tolerated. we'll see what goes on with this investigation. we'll see you later. bill: the white house chief of staff grilled over the history of the government surveillance programs. >> let me just get on the record. does the president feel he has violated the five i of any american. >> he does not. you feel that has been taken care of? >> ronald reagan used to say, trust but verify. but it seems the government may be asking us to trust it but they can't verify why we ought to trust it in some cases. >> i think you will hear the president talk about this in the days ahead. bill: the nsa plans to send congress declassified info

holly paz admitted to that in her left money to the overtight committee.know it goes from washington to the cincinnati field office. they tried to say it was localized. 75% of americans want an investigation and lois lerner is still there pleading the fifth and getting paid. there is bipartisan agreement that lois lerner has lost the faith and confidence of this government and of the people. even senator carl levin, a democrat. you have john mccain, all three have said she has to go. martha: you look at what happened here and all these groups and the questions they were asked and the mud they were dragged through. it doesn't matter one of the people involved happens to consider himself a conservative. the program was in full force. >> what matters is it was not done to target ideological opponents. martha: why weren't groups on the other side treated the same way. >> 40% were conservative groups buff it wasn't on conservative groups targeted. nobody was targeted for ideological reasons. that's what's key here. that's what's important to understand. >> the

. >> cnn reviewed another transcript of an interview with washington irs official, holly paz, which reveals she said using the term tea party was a shorthand way to identify any group participating in political action. they understood that the real issue was campaign intervention. when it comes to delays, paz said many requests languished because the irs cincinnati office waited for guidance from irs washington, where ooh washington didn't realize that applicants hadn't received answers from cincinnati. while there's bipartisan agreement so far that there's no evidence of political influence. many more irs employees to interview before they can firmly conclude why and how irs tea party targeting happened. jake? >> dana bash on capitol hill. despite woes, the irs says it's legally bound to pay $70 million in bonuses to union employees. charles grassley is demanding to know why he wrote to acting chief danny wuerfel of the irs were banned. the irs says, it's negotiating bonuses with the union. >>> the controversial vaccine against the virus that causes cervical cancer is working better than a

. >>> also new overnight, while you were sleeping, holly paz, a washington, d.c.rative leave. this after she came forward admitting to scrutinizing applications from tea party groups. some of those applications sat idle for more than a year. she told congress she reviewed between 20 and 30 cases. >> steve: and let's go ahead and talk to the governor a little bit about that. we were told it was just low level people in cincinnati. now it's a supervisor in washington. >> i don't think people really are surprised. with more of these revelations coming forth regarding the overreach of government and the harassment of those who perhaps would oppose some of the administration's policies. i really don't think the general everyday, hard working american is surprised at any of this. >> brian: the explanation was unbelievable. they said, well, when they told me in cincinnati after the tea party groups, i thought they meant generically. they really expect to us buy that? >> that is so unbelievable and does not bode well for that individual's intelligence. why is she working

and holly paz. in the last page of my testimony is my timeline. all the names are in there, as well as the id number. >> thank you. >> mr. thompson is recognized. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to thank all the witnesses for taking your time to be here. it is important we figure this out. ms. kenney, i want to particularly thank you with your work -- for your work with veterans. being one myself, i appreciate that very much. i want to stay for the record what i said last time we had a hearing on this. i believe it is outrageous and inappropriate and wrong, and we must do everything we can do to fix it, to make sure it never happens again. ms. belsom, i probably will not get it exactly correct, you said something along the lines of that this needs to be investigated. those responsible need to be held accountable for any targeting of conservative groups. i agree. but i also believe that any targeting of any group, anybody that does that needs to be held accountable. it is important that we hear about these abuses. however, we all know that it is

holly pass, formally a top deputy in irs division, reviewed up to 30 of those applications herself. not from cincinnati where we're told originally that rogue agencies were doing this but from washington d.c. where miss pazwas doing this. mystery, getting more misterrous, but it should not be a shocker. that examinations were done at a local office. >> that is ridiculous claim they made in first place. it sounds like holly is now also trying to say she how i thoughty were working on it in cincinnati, cincinnati people thought they were waiting for direct in dc. but it was really just a miscommunication, i spoke with a couple forler fedeeacup former s last night, they said that is not the way they work. neil: an earning o agency can on do stuff without checking with mother ship. which is washington. >> rigand we know that there are systems, that if something is late it flags it couldsumer advisers see it, it goes up the chain, there are reminders if something is later on overdue, there is no way there was a year and a half long miscommunication or 3 yearser where everybody thought everyone else was working on it. >> you know, when your group was fingered in all of that. asking all sorts of added questions

paz herself was doing this. mystery, getting more misterrousbutt suld not be a scker. that examination were done at a local office. >> that is ridulous claim they made in first place. itous like hollyso trying to say she how i thoughty were working on it in cincinnati, cincinnati people thought they were waiting for direct in dc. but it was really just a miscommunicati, i spoke with a couple forler fedeeacup former s last night, they said that is not the way they work. neil: an earning agey cann its n do stuffitho checking with mother ship. which is washington. >> right. and we know that there are systems, that if something is late it flags it couldsumer advisers see i it goes up the chain, there are reminders if something is later on overdue, the is no way there was a year and a half long miscommmmunicatn or 3 yearser where everybody thoughtveryone else was working on it. >> y know, when your group was fingered in all of that. asking all sorts of added questions, and forms andelays, how was it presented to you. when that was going on, how was it explained? >> well, for a large number of groups, nothing was explained. there was no contact. and when people had their attorneys contac