[laughter] theen horace mann, this is a big deal. [laughter] of all the prizes that you've been awarded, yeah, the horace mann prize. >> so some years ago horace mann said they'd like to name a prize after me. so i said that would really be great if it was for something that i believed in x they were really nice and said, well, what do you want? so i think i said earlier in this interview that i feel it's very important and not sufficiently understood that ifu you want a history or a biography to endure, the level of the writing has to be at the same level as as a novel. i believe that. if you read given and you say why does people still read that? try reading his sentences. he was just great. so theych named the prize the horace mann prize for literary excellence in the writing of history, the prize for literary excellence in the writing of history. and that's the biggest thrill, to go up there, you know, and nowth they say each year the number of submissions -- you know, you have to do an independent essay for this -- increases. an

. >> and it was that horace mann that you got your taste of journalism. >> to this day - - and i have dinner with 2-3 guys who worked with me 60 years ago. so the first remarkable thing is we are all still alive so if we get up from this table and we haven't set a date for the next meeting. someone said, joe you didn't set a date. this is what's keeping us alive. >> whatever works. you said you have snagged every prestigious prize one can get in your field. you think the biggest honor is the one that horace mann has given you. >> no one's ever asked me. >> someone at npr was like - - [laughter] wind it out and then send in the next hippie. this is a big deal. >> so some years ago, told us that they'd like to name a prize after me. i said that would really be great if there was something that i believed in. they said what do you want? i think i said earlier in this interview that i feel it's very important and not sufficiently understood that if you want to history or biography to end the war, the level of the right thing has to be the same level as the novel. i believe that. try readi