more desirous of saying this, and that is, i think as basic as the flag symbol for america is the horatio algerstory. that is onward, upward. we believed it for our children, but the children aren't seeing it come true in today's society. the child no longer, by getting the extra education, is going to get a better job and lead a better life than his parents. traditionally, from the beginning of the united states, it was always, "you can succeed," and now, it's disillusionment. these mbas and whatnot can't get a job of any sort because they're too qualified. so this means a whole economic upheaval, but also the disillusionment, because it was a symbol, and always has been for us. >> and any nation has to go constantly reform its identity and relationships, repackaged for its civil religious sentiments, if it's going to continue down the pike - you can't just stay in the past. >> these are the future. these are the people who will be governing in another 10, 15 years. >> and they have to have some kind of ideals. and i often think that should have - train millions of religious studies professors

certainly, in my case, and in many other cases that i know of, people should go to the website, horatio alger society and read the stories of those people, all of whom came from desperate situations and achieved at the highest levels. see what they put into it. those are the kinds of things we need to be putting in front of our young people. >> so, doctor, would you support government investment in early childhood education, increasing that? secondly, where do you stand on the issue of affirmative action? >> yes. early childhood education is good if it's done correctly. we don't want to do it in a way that gives people a message, poor little thing, we're going to take care of you. we want to do it in a way that's empowering and that tends to left people up. as far as affirmative action is concerned, i believe in something, and i've written about it, called compassionate action. we've always been a very generous and compassionate people who root for the underdog. the stripe of the underdog changes over the course of time. i think we should be looking at who the underdog is, not a particular cl