michael horwitz has a reputation for thoroughness. mccabe disputes whether mccabe was candid but horwitz judged otherwise. my push back to ruth, i take her point, has to do with the timing of this, notwithstanding when his retirement was. it's 100% clear this was driven by the white house for the petty reason of stripping him of his pension. that's wrong. that's not the way it's supposed to work. >> i want to repeat what andrew mccabe said to the "new york times" tonight. the idea i was dishonest is just wrong. he said this is part of an effort to discredit me as a witness. and david k. johnston he means as a witness in the special prosecutor's investigation. he's a witness to, among other things we know he's a witness to, the comey firing. in that we know that james comey spoke to him about what the president said to him. and so, when james comey is presented as a witness describing what the president said and did to him, andrew mccabe is part of that. >> yes. and comey did exactly what you should do in that situation. he immediately

sources tell me chairman nunes has full confidence that michael horwitz can carry out an investigationhich eliminates a bit of a contrast between chairman nunes end of the president. yesterday ripped jeff sessions for putting an investigation into the hands of the inspector general, rather than watching launching a criminal investigation. the other thing that is new for the house intelligence committee is that questionnaire chairman nunes sent out to former members of the obama administration asking them to respond to ten questions. apparently a couple of those questionnaires have come back, some people have asked for more time. perhaps we will glean some more information when they return. >> melissa: thank you. >> jon: with the fbi under the microscope of attorney general jeff sessions earlier this week, order the justice department's internal watchdog to investigate allegations of surveillance abuse. that drew public criticism from president trump. an op-ed in "the wall street journal" says it sessions made the right move. "no one should underestimate the power of the inspector gener

. >> you're talking about michael horwitz. he said that he had nothing to do with that. >> i think that michael horwitz, i did not sign the letter that attorney jeff sessions is referencing, michael horwitz is fantastic, he is great for looking at matters within the department that he has no jurisdiction over witnesses who have left. you just mention jim comey and andy mccabe, they are both gone. loretta lynch is gone, sally yates is gone, there are 24 witnesses that i've identified, michael horwitz would not have jurisdiction over and cannot compel their attendance and their testimony. martha, that says nothing about the state department angle or fusion gps or anyone not in the department, so with all due respect to attorney general sessions, all he can do is look at the department and the fbi and nothing outside of it. >> martha: one of the glaring questions is why i wanted today? why wanted to they want to make sure that their own entity had operated properly and if it has not, want to shed light on that? and if you raise q

. >> what changed for me was the knowledge of the witnesses of michael horwitz, the inspector generaless files to. your auctions, they cannot do that. conflict of interest, let the inspector general do it. >> was abused by a gathering of information from a suspect source not disclosing that to the court and in my opinion getting authority to look at the background of an american citizen's life unquestionable circumstances. that is a serious concern. >> last month donald trump tweet his displeasure with jeff sessions, before asking the inspector general to investigate fisa abuses. adam schiff blasting republicans demanding republicans demand stating this may help serve the president's interest but does nothing to serve national interests, referring to republicans in terms of the russia probe. they contend evidence the fbi, justice department displayed bias against candidate trump at the highest levels of leadership. rob: the snowstorm over the northeast. jillian: two states have issued states of emergency and more are expected to follow. >> the latest on where the storm is headed. >> r

remember, attorney general jeff sessions had said he wanted horwitz to handle this and sessions got aot of heat from supporters of president trump who said the inspector general would bury this and that this was sessions passing the buck again. this is a sign that he is moving full speed ahead. devin nunes first revealed with his memo, laying out how top fbi and justice officials and the obama administration got a warrant from the fisa court to spy on carter page. most importantly, comey, mccabe, and other officials allegedly used the anti-trump dossier to get that initial warrant without telling the judge that the dnc and hillary clinton's campaign had paid for the dirt in that dossier. horwitz is also working on two other major reports including comey's conduct, peter starks tough messages in the unauthorized leaks the media. this week, there have been criminal charges filed in minnesota and a separate case involving a former fbi agent who allegedly leaked classified sensitive information, so the bottom line is this is part of jeff sessions cracked down on the leaking of sensitive i

michael horwitz said they're going to look into the fbi surveillance whether or not they did things righthe law the policies to it someone say would be spy a certain person we know that is carter page, is this a victory for republicans? >> a lot of republicans are labeling this is a dead to be frank. republicans are saying it's a step in the right direction. the justice department is paying attention to their concerns but it's not nearly as big if they were to get their own special counsel. this probe cannot be as expensive as molars. not as many witnesses are as in-depth. it probably won't take as long. it's a disappointment for republicans but many are saying it's better than nothing. >> molly: remember the dueling memo saga that we all just went through republicans made the argument that the fisa court to not get all the information about the dossier and who funded it. they would like to review what the justice department new at the time when they were filed about the former british spy that we no space are for steel. how much could that make a difference? >> i think christopher steele

formal damage assessment, this comes as a report from the justice department inspector general michael horwitzon the doj and fbi handling of the email piece. former trump campaign manager corey lewandowski meeting behind closed doors about russian interference this thursday. he met with the group in january. at the time he wasn't ready to answer questions related after leaving the campaign in summer of 2016. >> a federal judge willing donald trump's phaseout of daca is legal, the same day the protection for dreamers was set to expire and all the protests but this judgment does not overturn, blocking the trumpet administration fermenting the program, nothing changes, the white house pushing congress to find a permanent solution. republican cochran resigning from the senate after four decades. the mississippi senator and chairman of the appropriations committee decided to give up his seat due to poor health, he was elected to the senate in 1978 after serving 6 years in the house was a special election will be held during the november 6th midterms to fill the rest of his term through january 21st

inspector general horwitz and robin ashton. nobody has ever question their integrity. now you reach the place of what were the charges? leaking and lacking of candor. look at lacking of candor, it's dishonesty, deceit, lying. doj, attorney general sessions made the right decision releasing mccabe. there is more to this and i leave this is just the beginning. >> shannon: do you have any idea or sense of when the ig report will come out so everybody can see it. my understanding is mccabe's team said they had a chance to see it and they said up until couple days before inspiring, they were still getting exculpatory evidence that would have benefited him. >> we wanted to make sure this ig inspector's report comes out for the neck people to be able to see. we have a specific date? we have not been given to it but i've advocated that the mac people can see it firsthand because i believe this is peeling back the layers. >> shannon: now, we are looking at yet another potential government shutdown if you don't get funding deal done. by friday night midnight. we will be here in

it is the case that the inspector general of the justice department michael horwitz is not at all a trump figure. he was appointed by president obama. he has a long history as an independent neutral career law enforcement official and i do not see him as someone based on anything i've known about him for years as someone who would do the president's bidding for any reason at all. so his presence in this still murky chain of events makes me not want to leap to any conclusion about whether this was unjustified. >> okay. i want to switch gears here. what's really behind all the changes in the white house and the cabinet. is this as simple as not enough people agrees with the perspectives? >> i think what we're seeing is the president 14 months into his presidency growing more confident that he knows -- that he believes he knows what he's doing and he wants to put the team around him, that he trusted, he believes is going to back his policies. and he did not see that, in, say, secretary rex tillerson, now outgoing secretary of state rex tillerson. he sees that more in people like mike pompeo

horwitz, is extremely able, extremely aggressive, and while he does not -- does not have criminal powers per se come he can make referrals. i think the combination of u.s. attorneys huber and inspector general horowitz is a pretty potent force right now. again, it would be a special counsel. this is a long way down the road. again, i think i jeff sessions should get credit for this. it should not be written off. we shouldn't diminish this or demean it. everything we've heard in the ig report coming out from the inspector general, mr. horowitz, is going to be significant. again, we are a long way further down the road than we were several weeks ago, several months ago. >> shannon: are you confident that we'll get information at any of these investigators are congressional committees are seeking from the fisa court about the application about what went into their considerations? it's another branch. something totally different. they have been it seemed resistant at this point to make anything public. it's very secretive by its nature. that is the whole point. >> it does raise issues as to

now we do know that the inspectorw general, horwitz, we expect a report that they had been working onretty long time to be coming out perhaps maybe even this week, next week, or at least very shortly. but the inspector general has no prosecutorial powers. we know certain facts here. know that in the fisa warrant, there was never -- they knew that in fact hillary had bought and paid for it. they didn't tell in the original application to the judge that in fact that was the case. it was a special footnote, "may have political orientation." that has nothing to the judge. they purposely withheld that information and every subsequent renewal of that application, eeree times, again, they don't tell the judge, and everybody knew that the basis for it was the dossier or to court the former deputy fbi director mccabe, no dossier, note fisa warrant application even. >> correct. look, the inspector general, the department of justice has been advocating that the inspector general -- they put him o in charge, michael horowitz, this investigation, and to fisa abuse. but everyone, there is a growing

remember attorney general jeff sessions weeks ago said he wanted horwitz to handle this and got more heat from supporters of president trump who said, well, the inspector general is going to bury this. sessions had passed the buck once again. this, tonight, is a sign maybe horowitz moving full speed ahead on what republican devin nunes first brought to the nation's attention with that republican memo laying out how top fbi and justice department officials in the obama administration got a warrant in 2016 from a secretive fisa courts to spy on former trump advisor carter page. most importantly, comey, mccabe used information from former british spy christopher steele sent a trump dossier to get that warrant without disclosing to the judge that in fact the dnc and hillary clinton's campaign had paid for that. horowitz declaring in a statement tonight, "as part of this examination, the office of inspector general world will review information that was known to the doj and fbi at thes filed from or about an alleged fbi confidential source, additionally, the inspector general will review

also they keep chiming in with michael horwitz the general at the department of justice is also looking at this. he's going to issue a report then you get another -- wait a minute he doesn't have authority, and the counter as to what he can make referrals to u.s. attorney in that instance. >> that's my question, in terms of per view and power. we pretty clear of watching millioner. if you got a u.s. attorney looking at this what's that going to look like? >> a u.s. attorney in my humble opinion is probably better. you hear the complaints, if you're tasked with one topic what happens if it's going into other ones. i've said before and i'll say it again, this is almost a sblimal pay back for what's going on with bob mueller. you have a veteran in utah, he's going to look at it. politics and legal discussions are two different things. >> the question becomes what does the white house think about this kellyanne conway had something to say. let's take a listen. >> having this prosecutor take a fresh look at everything we know and could foe is a positive development. i respect the attorney ge

we had very big participation, but september 21st, horwitz again -- the posters. okay. and let me just go back. what this response? this is what the students associated students did. they put up the palestinian flag. they published poster, hate speech is not free speech. they said we will not be silent and we will not be see lent. what we do, we tone to do. we continue to teach our hases that-under full to the campus. we continue to do with no resources, public education programs using the classrooms to bring the community, the faculty, the students, multiple peopling to to organize everything in there, and we continue to teach palestine and i'm very proud to announce that in two weeks we'll by holding two conferences, on teaching palestine and the indivisible of justice because we will not be silenced. we will not be signs led. we will not be derailed. justice will prevail. thank you. [applause] [applause] >> thank you very much. that was incredible. so we have about ten minutes or so for questions. so if you're holding toni cards, find an usher and do send them forwar

on the other hand we have career people in the department, folks like michael horwitz, he's worked for both administrations, a straightforward kind of guy and the folks in the office of professional responsibility. people in the deputy attorney general's office who really look at these issues with the long view. consistency in the presidedepar across a long period of time. what we have is a conflict of that professional process with this very political context. there's no reason that the attorney general had to fire andy mccabe tonight on a friday night at 10:00 at night. in fact, this whole idea that this firing was done this late on a friday night makes it look very rushed, very politicized. it might have been wiser for the attorney general simply to let the time clock run out to avoid making the justice department look like a place where the president can go to condemn his political opponents. it's a dooply troubling development. >> jeremy barber if you need more proof we're in differing time, the story after we conclude this is a sitting president woez lawyer is trying to get $20 m

let the inspector general to which, i am a big fan of mike horwitz, but he has no jurisdiction of a witnesshat was at the department or never work there. when i count up 24 witnesses that he would not be able to access where he too investigated, yes, only one conclusion, that a special counsel. >> it is very significant, melissa, eight months ago 120 members of congress called for a special counsel to look into the matters, trey gowdy was not among dos. and the significant members of congress who understand the practical impossibility of having the department of justice look at that themselves, people asked me why is there no one in jail yet or challenges abroad, and the answer is congress can under cover of the facts. and they can give us illuminating details, we cannot slap handcuffs on anybody. we do not have the power, only the attorney general can get a second special counsel. >> melissa: when people think that something went wrong, they are in two camps. there are ones who were bad actors in the fbi they need to be rooted out or the department of justice and then there are others who

horwitz, from everything i hear, he's an honorable man and he will do his job.r, there is a lot of pressures that come with that because the inspector general ultimately, his boss is the department of justice. this is not a simple move for the inspector general to make, to go after the top people in the fbi. is why i think i am glad that mr. horowitz is going to continue to look into this. but i also have a lot of concerns about that there's no one is looking into this. how are you going tos have masr comey testify to the inspector general? is not goingte to sit for an interview and neither is mr. mccabe. >> sean: we need a special counsel as gregg jarrett was saying. you made a conclusion after 14 months, you have no evidence of the trump campaign and collusion or any evidence of any financial impropriety with the trump organization and the campaign. but yet even after 14 months every media breathlessly, hysterically reporting and your so-called counterpart in the msnbc wannabe contributor adam schiff who actually shows up on russian tv, which is a little ironi

. >> chris: we should just say horwitz is the inspector genera inspector general. >> two weeks ago, the president was criticizing and now all the sudden mccabe is criticizing. he is probably doing his job because everyone is criticizing him. let's wait and see what he found. let's wait and see what that lack of candor was. then we can judge the pattern of the penalty of losing his pension. we can judge all that once we understand exactly what he is alleged to have done. make no mistake, the fbi recommended he be fired. of one crazy house republican said it wasn't the trump administration, it was one of his own federal bureau agents. >> chris: point well taken. all this comes on the same week that the house intelligence committee, on which you are a prominent member, basically ended your investigation of russian collusion. i want to put up one of the key conclusions from the republican members of your committee. we have found no evidence of collusion, coordination or conspiracy between the trump campaign and the russians. g.o.p. members also said that while they believe the russians medd

abuse of the fisa process and a lot of hope is hinging on the doj and inspector and inspector general horwitznd what he finds that he doesn't have the same power so it makes sense to me that a committee like this which would oversee this. ask doj but will depend on what it provides. they said the right thing. bureaucracies always say the right thing but then they rate for the cameras to go somewhere else and they drip out a few documents heavily redacted. the question is what did they actually get to see? we're going to need to see something on this because as chapters not close especially on fisa. >> jessica: he left one important thing off the list which is the firing of deputy director andrew mccabe. i think that is important since we found out that he was opening up an investigation into jeff sessions. and jeff sessions came and fired andy mackay. i think they should turn over all documents, 1.2 million. i'm not one of those democrats who mined the emails being looked into over and over until everybody is satisfied and we can finally move on. when there is more light on all of this, i fee

if horwitz comes out with the reporting you go reporting you go into what is ever necessary to risk prosecutiony not wait? >> we know would have been. a political party to spy on citizens at the same time, hillary clinton never facing true jeopardy. we know as a consequence of the word devin nunes and bob goodlatte have done, that hillary clinton have the way it for her and that would be a violation of the rule of law. we have to appoint a special counsel and aggregate the fax from these investigations. once we get his report it will be an even louder drumbeat to bring accountability. >> what will happen the sessions. the story quieted down with everything else we've been dealing with, the president at the beginning of last week, is he along for this job or what? >> the president wants his current attorney general to step up and be the attorney general. i would understand that the president were frustrated by his refusal on the russia matter because it's put some of the folks at issue in those facts in charge of the direction of the investigation and that creates a conflict of interest. we woul

. >> horwitz is an obama appointee. >> what's going on here? >> i think this is just corruption. they were covering their tracks. i think there was, obama, he corrected the justice department. and loretta lynch was involved in this, that, in order to make sure that mrs. clinton did not have problems on her path to be president of the united states. >> you think the actually were orders where there is pressure to try and -- >> there were emails between the people who were doing the investigation into the fbi, the president unisys is interested in everything we are going. all the president say there are walls, they were reporting exactly what was going on. and the way the investigation of the cleansing emails, collective grand jury and subpoena, destruction of evidence. the giving of immunity. talk to any prosecutor, that was not a popular investigation. >> there was say the interest by the president with the russia investigation and what they would find in russia. you don't buy that. >> no. two completely different things. clinton's problem was to be president of the united states

michael horwitz is the director and we expect his report soon. and it will be critical. some of the political activity of mccabe and the extent that passes over. comes up, howt does it come to you? do you get the first look at it? you are out of session on friday . how do you get a chance to see the report? guest: typically the chairman gets a briefing. were may be some provisions have to review in a secured facility. in other provisions, we could have an open hearing. aboutl make a decision how to proceed with publicizing that report based on the content. sources thate of may need to be redacted. host: we go now to herbert from maryland. good morning, fort washington. caller: good morning. who is running the country? the nra? the republicans? the democrats? you guys keep passing the buck. i did the martin luther king march and everything. that is only got something done. -- [indiscernible] your own people. why don't you do something about it? thank you, goodbye. address your perception of the influence of the nra, both on a personal campaign level and more broadly, but

that we need to -- the inspector general for the last year or so, he has only been looking michael horwitzclinton e-mail investigation, do you think in that report we will find out abuses related to the fisa court? >> i think we will find out about some abuses on the part of some people like peter strzok, like page, potentially mccabe and that will lend credibility to the inspector general's work in general. i do think they are capable. i have worked with the inspector general around the inspector general and previous inspector generals and i think that they have the authority, people say don't have the authority, they can subpoena, they can arrest, they can't go to court and prosecute but can go to u.s. attorney and present evidence and obtain a prosecution or begin a prosecution. so they do have the authority, i don't like special counsels on top of special counsels. i firmly believe that mueller is doing good work and work that should be done, but i just don't think we need to pile another special counsel on top of him at this point. dagen: chris, good to see you, so much to cover. plea

maria: we have to point out their one-point 2 million documents that the inspector general michael horwitzeen in congress has requested those documents in the fbi has been stonewalling. but the 1.2 million documents -- the subpoena is now in place and they are subpoenaing those documents which were reported yesterday and on sunday. your thoughts, and dig in. dagen: to hear this side of eric holder is not given the fact we hadn't abuse at the irs, that the justice department didn't do anything about, former attorney general who basically criminalize journalism or tried to signing off on a warrant on a fox news reporter, james rosen, for his personal e-mail. maria: he was held in contempt of congress. maria: if they did the same thing with the ap is quite rich. pay attention to what the former attorney general and some of the former obama administration officials might be saying about what is going on because he said on bill marr a few weeks ago he expects robert mueller to find obstruction of justice against the president of the united states. certainly on the outside into the press, they a