china are examples in addition to saudi arabia. we also have them as trading partners. with we knee -- we need them for some things, when you go -- howardbut do you think the media was off a base then? everybody should just say, well, this is politics in the global community? >> yes, i do. after the meeting the foreign minister of saudi arabia said they should really, you know, focus on content of the meeting and that this was actually a win for joe biden as opposed to the first bump. look, he said he wasn't going to shake his hand, he did something else. you have to do something. he's a prince, you're a guest in his house. i've interview horrendous people, grand wizards of the kkk, i treat them the same and with respect as a guest on my show. that's part of diplomacy, and that has happened since adam and eve, and it will continue long after we're gone. this does not take away from the horrendousness. the president said that he did not believe that the prince was not responsible for this man's death. howard: right. >> and he looked him in the eye and said that. howard: there were some disputed accounts in the saudi version. ben, there's