the hsc block grants to all the hospitals across the country. in holland, it is costing an average family 5500 per annum. >> in ireland, and your minister for a time and were responsible for selling h updatesc, we have ended up with a very expensive health system. we are paying a huge amount of money. it is dysfunctional. we have people not able to get into hospitals this year than ever before. [unintelligible] we are talking about reforming the system. we published an entire document on the details. >> he now says that the last thing our system needs is a major restructuring. the new spokesman on health says the two-tier system is working very well if anybody was going to privatize the whole system, it will be them. they took up private lands which could have been used for the expansion of private hospitals. a good friend of mine died recently. he had tumors. he could not get a bed in his hospital. they had to drive up to the emergency room and camp out there until they are admitted. many fine people working in the service work under enormous s

what would your view of hsc being abolished? it cost a lot of money to start it up. >> we have to concentrate on reforming the system rather than just reforming structures and institutions. it got bogged down for a number of years and then you talk about abolishing a hsc and then you waste time and money set up something else. we have to modify it. we have to reform our health service. we have to base it on universal health insurance and do it to end the two-tier system. so people get treated on the basis of need rather than money. we have set out a two-phase strategy to do that pretty first base would be to concentrate on primary care. would upgrade the primary care system and by the year four, to have three primary care for everybody as part of ensured system. it would cost 489 million europe. . the second phase is the hospital phase which would take another two years where we would end up with a fully insured system that transforms the health system into a more efficient system, save money, and which will be more fair for pat