i love hughie. i love playing hughie. and it's not massive pain and massive -- he's just a little guy who thinks his life has been worth it and successful and as he talks about his life we realize just what a tiny small disaster it's been. not a big one. a thousand cuts? >> not even a thousand cuts. it's the death of 80% of the population. >> rose: you realize they have been living an illusion of some kind? >> oh, for sure and he's still living an illusion. >> rose: and that's 80% of a population you know. >> let me put it this way, i was raised in an irish family so i have sat on a few death beds and that feeling of was this ride worth it and just recently in fact. and that's what hughie is. hughie is a life adding up to 40 or 50 years of certainty, knowledge of who he was, what he could do what his chances were, and failing at every single thing. >> rose: iceman i think ben bradley said this about hickey is really this is about his role as a catalyst. do you think that? more than him, it's his role as a catalyst. >> yes

let's talk about the big picture with matthew hughie, a adjunct professor at the university of connecticut. he's in hartford tonight. do you think these are the right move professor? >> i think they're the right move a step in the right direction but i think we need to back up from that for just a second. look at the larger structural issue. this is not just about ferguson, but about many towns that are hypersegregated. maybe moving, removing some of the personnel might help just a little bit. but i think if we stick to that type of conversation we're going to fall into a type of discourse that i like to call the good, the bad and the ugly. we think that these people are somehow the bad apples that really don't spoil the good bunch and we miss the overall ugly structure of racism in the united states that haitian gone away that we're still living -- that hasn't gone away that we're still living with. >> how do you fix racism? >> i think you need to look at what are the causes for of this. white supremacy legacy of that and continued practices of that. one which the former guest was speakin

that is what hughie is. a life adding up to 40 or 50 years of certainty. knowledge of who he was.hat he could do. what his chances were. and failing at every single thing. charlie: iceman, it was said that this was his role as a catalyst. do you think that? nathan: yes. not just as a catalyst for the characters in the play, before -- but for the audience. this is a confrontational play. as much as he experimented in his early career with greek tragedy, more stately mansions in the south or whatever it might have been, this was really an experiment, and emotional marathon that goes on for close to five hours. he wanted the audience to feel trapped. he wanted them to suffer with the people on stage. charlie: make it uncomfortable. nathan: and the audiences that come, you feel that. people say to me, more than any other production, they feel this is more confrontational. you do start to think about your own life and your own pipe dreams and illusions and what is true and what isn't. they go back there. charlie: but in the end they hang onto those. he says, you have been insane this e